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Nov 28 2025 09:05am
yes, point made. man, i feel like my hands were caught in the cookie jar. you just killed me with kindness. with brevity now: there is very little evidence to support the notion that Hamas have been in any way effective in waging a "war" since early 2014. that means that after the IDF "Won" (and this did not take long after Oct 7th) they spent close to two years bombarding gaza and flattening it, which by all accounts is collective punishment. i dont need to read Reuters, the BBC or Al Jazeera to support this notion, but I do. You yourself have said in past as have others here - i.e. that there is nothing wrong with collective punishment, and you are a reasonable person. therefore if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and all the other animals in the zoo tell me its a duck, then its a duck. when people go around reinforcing the notion of barbarians, hamapalastinians, no food water or electricity, and worse, then I will accept these comments at face value, AFTER i have verified them, from chatgpt.

finally my argument remains: by doing this, it is not a big deal for israel at face value. the world does not really care about gaza or the west bank, but this is creating the possibility of a mistake by Israel, that would hurt Israel alot. what that mistake is i dont know, but when you treat an entire population like this, for decades, the risk of incidents like Oct 7th, will increase. and Oct 7th was a symptom, not the MISTAKE that i fear may happen. If a mistake comes along, there really wont be much to say about it, noting cause and effect. regrettably.


I’ll address the two main points you’ve presented:
The first, Hamas not being effective in waging war and Israel collective punishment to the Gazans. I’ll like to remind everyone that Israel has been subjected to bombardments by Hamas for years. People in this thread belittled it, belittle Hamas’s capabilities ands that’s a mistake. From security logic, if your neighbour actively declares that he’ll like to murder you (from whatever justified reason it may be) you shouldn’t wait for him to do it. You don’t wait for him to buy a gun and you don’t belittle his capabilities of executing it with a knife.
We should not belittle anyone capabilities.
Another reason for continuing the military campaign after Hamas’s capabilities went down the drain, is that Hamas controls Gaza. Hamas therefore must lose and at least not be a winner. It’s a dangerous situation if Hamas will be able to present itself as a winner.

The second part of your post about Oct.7 and the possibility of Israel to see similar events in the future -
That’s absolutely correct.
I have no solution. But who knows, Germany and England fought for hundred of years. Maybe, some day..
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Nov 28 2025 10:59am
Is Hamas that powerful that can't be erased after 2 years of war? I mean we all know they aren't and this makes me think that Israel has an hidden objective and that's not destroying Hamas cells.
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Nov 28 2025 02:47pm
Is Hamas that powerful that can't be erased after 2 years of war? I mean we all know they aren't and this makes me think that Israel has an hidden objective and that's not destroying Hamas cells.


No. Hamas is not unbreakable. The difference is that Israel is not fighting an open army, it is fighting an organization designed to hide behind civilians, tunnels, and hostages. When the enemy holds Israeli civilians underground and embeds itself inside apartment buildings, schools, and hospitals, war stops being fast and becomes surgical. Israel also warns civilians before major strikes. That alone changes the pace of war completely. A country that tries to avoid civilian deaths cannot fight at the same speed as an organization that uses civilians as shields. The delay is not weakness. It is restraint
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Nov 28 2025 03:03pm
No. Hamas is not unbreakable. The difference is that Israel is not fighting an open army, it is fighting an organization designed to hide behind civilians, tunnels, and hostages. When the enemy holds Israeli civilians underground and embeds itself inside apartment buildings, schools, and hospitals, war stops being fast and becomes surgical. Israel also warns civilians before major strikes. That alone changes the pace of war completely. A country that tries to avoid civilian deaths cannot fight at the same speed as an organization that uses civilians as shields. The delay is not weakness. It is restraint


Well according to others number of innocent civilians that were killed is quite big, mostly women and children, so avoiding collateral victims seems to be just propaganda. I understand the fight against terrorists which is more than normal thing to do, but killing innocent people which were waiting to get food supplies is unacceptable. Hopefully this fight, because I can't name it war, will end and all guilty ones will be punished, and yeah when I say guilty I refer to both sides.
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Nov 28 2025 04:46pm
re: But who knows, Germany and England fought for hundred of years. Maybe, some day..


Europe needed a world war in order for Germany and France to stop bickering. just saying...
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Nov 28 2025 07:01pm
Europe needed a world war in order for Germany and France to stop bickering. just saying...


TWO*

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 28 2025 07:01pm
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Nov 29 2025 02:34am
TWO*


my bad my bad. the first step towards a peace, where two cultures collide, would be to either wipe one culture out, or to show a degree of respect.
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Nov 29 2025 10:46am
my bad my bad. the first step towards a peace, where two cultures collide, would be to either wipe one culture out, or to show a degree of respect.


I mean, yeah. But the biggest factor ending the wars in Europe was growing affluence coupled with declining birth rates. People aren't motivated for war when their own lives are good and there is no demographic or economic pressure to expand. Particularly when religion and cultural differences are negligible.
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Nov 29 2025 04:45pm


so as i understand it, and just helping the tally sheet as outlined in the video, the death toll over the last 3 years :

2023* - (including pre-Oct 7th) 1400 (took highest estimate) Israeli's killed vs 9,600 (took lowest estimate) Palestinians. So 1 Israeli for 8 Palestinian.
2024 - 500 (took highest estimate) Israeli's killed vs 40,000 (took lowest estimate) Palestinians. so 1 Israeli per 80 Palestinian.
2025 - 250 (took highest estimate) Israeli's killed vs 25,000 (took the figure provided) Palestinians. so 1 Israeli per 100 Palestinian.

*the 2023 figure is Jan-Dec. if we just take Jan - Sept (i.e. prior to the Hamas attack) it is showing max 15 Israelis vs 550 Palestinians. so 1 Israeli per 36 Palestinians.

I accept that these figures dont mean anything to a lot of posters (because its not the same right!) but for people sitting on the fence it tells its own story.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 29 2025 04:45pm
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Nov 29 2025 05:22pm
Is Hamas that powerful that can't be erased after 2 years of war? I mean we all know they aren't and this makes me think that Israel has an hidden objective and that's not destroying Hamas cells.


The resistance against Israel as an occupying force is over 70 years old iirc. Hamas disbanding today wouldn't stop another group from assembling over the coming decades.
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