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Nov 21 2025 10:20am
Its really not clear if its got a chance or not. Many claims of EU/UA rejection, Zelensky refuting that and leaving the ball up in the air. Very clearly an opposite tone from previous jingoist "fight on the beaches" rhetoric.
And the reports are Trump is again threatening to rescind US support, financial and weapons, if Ukraine rejects the deal, and is pushing a "by Thanksgiving" deadline so Trump can take his victory lap in time.

Its a showdown. Will it lead to any change in status quo, I don't know. It has a fighting chance


my view is no matter what happens over the next number of months, the EU will continue to ramp up its military and Ukraine will still aspire to get its lands back.
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Nov 21 2025 11:12am
sorry for double post ~

There is currently no finalized or publicly signed U.S.–Russia agreement to end the war in Ukraine. However, there are several detailed proposals and negotiation frameworks circulating, including a widely discussed 28-point plan that has been the subject of intensive back-channel diplomacy. Much of what is known comes from leaks and official comments rather than a formal treaty.

The core of the initiative involves informal negotiations between a U.S. special envoy (Steve Witkoff) and a Kremlin-linked figure (Kirill Dmitriev). These talks are aimed at building a roadmap toward ending the war, though both Russia and Ukraine maintain public reservations. Meetings have taken place in neutral countries, such as Saudi Arabia, and both sides agreed to form high-level teams to continue discussing terms.

One proposed component is a 30-day interim ceasefire covering missile, drone, and bomb attacks along the front line and the Black Sea. The U.S. indicated it would resume intelligence sharing and military support to Ukraine once the ceasefire began. Ukraine has publicly accepted the concept of a 30-day pause, but Russia has stated that it cannot accept the proposal “in its current form.”

The leaked 28-point plan includes contentious territorial provisions. Ukraine might be required to relinquish parts of the Donbas, including areas it currently controls, and to freeze the front lines in Kherson and Zaporizhzhia as de facto borders. This would essentially formalize some of Russia’s battlefield gains, something deeply controversial in Ukraine and potentially unconstitutional under Ukrainian law.

Major military restrictions are also part of the proposal. These include cutting the size of Ukraine’s armed forces roughly in half, imposing limits on the types of weapons Ukraine can field, and setting a maximum military size (reportedly around 600,000 troops). Such measures are framed as steps to reduce escalation but are seen by critics as forcing Ukraine into long-term vulnerability.

A central political element is Ukrainian neutrality. Under the draft, Ukraine would formally pledge not to join NATO, and this neutrality would be codified in its constitution. NATO forces would not be allowed to station permanently inside Ukraine. Ukraine’s leadership, however, has repeatedly emphasized that NATO membership is one of the few meaningful security guarantees available, making this a significant sticking point.

The plan includes U.S. security guarantees for Ukraine, but with conditions. The U.S. would pledge to deter future Russian aggression and re-impose heavy sanctions if Russia violated the agreement. However, these guarantees could be suspended if Ukraine were deemed to have launched attacks inside Russia “without cause,” which is controversial because it places constraints on Ukraine’s self-defense strategy.

There are also legal and constitutional components, including mutual amnesties for wartime actions, provisions to eliminate legal disputes between Russia and Ukraine, and requirements for Ukraine to enshrine neutrality in law. The plan reportedly would require Ukraine to hold new elections within 100 days of the agreement taking effect.

Large economic and reconstruction provisions are included as well. A massive reconstruction fund—potentially around $200 billion—would be organized by the U.S., with up to $100 billion of frozen Russian assets being used to rebuild Ukraine. Economic cooperation between Russia and the West would gradually resume, involving energy, resource extraction, and technology partnerships.

On energy and nuclear issues, the plan includes restarting the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant under international supervision. Electricity generated would be divided equally between Russia and Ukraine. Ukraine would also reaffirm its non-nuclear status.

There are also cultural and governance provisions requiring protections for minorities, religious institutions, and broader tolerance programs within Ukraine. These provisions appear designed to address Russian concerns about discrimination, though many Ukrainians view them as unwarranted intrusion.

A monitoring body, sometimes referred to as a “Peace Council,” would oversee implementation. Some reports suggest it might be chaired by a high-profile American political figure. The legitimacy, neutrality, and enforcement mechanisms of such a body remain unclear.

Finally, the proposal includes several humanitarian elements, such as returning deported Ukrainian children, conducting widescale prisoner exchanges, and launching family-reunification and victim-support programs.

At present, this framework remains only a proposal, not a binding agreement. Russia has rejected portions of it, Ukraine has expressed major reservations, and many of the provisions face constitutional or political obstacles. Nonetheless, it remains one of the most detailed and structured roadmaps for ending or freezing the conflict that has emerged so far. The situation continues to evolve, and none of the terms described have been formally agreed to by all parties.
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Nov 21 2025 11:56am
A 30-day truce instead of peace- seems like someone wants to keep the war going a bit longer, but so far, they're not doing great at it. This isn't like running away from those sheeplovers in flip-flops with Kalashnikovs for 20 years, trying to advance in pretty columns, perfectly set up for an RPG shot.

This post was edited by Norlander on Nov 21 2025 11:57am
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Nov 21 2025 07:39pm
Anyway the (latest) peace plan is now public and we can see all the proposed deals;

https://i.imgur.com/Jgc14kp.png

notable inclusions (distilling down the redundancies:)

  • US is giving a security guarantee and 'decisive coordinated military response' if Russia invades further, and abandons all terms if Ukraine invades Russia or engages in long-range bombardment
  • Ukraine will have a constitutional prohibition against joining NATO, and NATO pinky promises not to expand again, and Russia pinky promises not to invade again, and NATO won't position troops or weapons in Ukraine
  • Ukraine can join the EU and gets $100 billion in frozen Russian assets, while Russia gets its sanctions lifted, rejoins the G8 and thaws its other frozen assets.
  • Ukraine cedes the 12% of the DPR it currently holds and is under siege which become a DMZ administered by Russia, while Russia cedes 'other' territories, and Kher/Zap get frozen status quo and sorted out later
  • The US and Russia restarts their nuclear non-proliferation treaties
  • Ukraine agrees to reduce military size and be non-nuclear
  • Ukraine must hold elections, disavow Nazi ideology and commit to not discriminating against orthodox christianity and russian-speakers (the stories I've heard from people coming back from Kyiv, this was a big 'yikes' on all counts)


A lot of bureaucratic stuff and expected peace deal details like body swaps, joint reconstruction, amnesty for war crimes, and a few oddball lines like the US demanding compensation and mineral rights even as a non-party to the conflict ('supposedly')
Well its the same deal. Ukraine can refuse it and lose the territories by force that they're asked to give up, anyway, and lose their chance to regain whatever territory Russia is willing to give up. Its the inevitable terms to end this conflict that will have to be agreed in the end, unless Ukraine cracks completely and collapses or provokes a nuclear war, not much other foreseeable end at this point. And at least the US is shoehorning in some worthwhile clauses like nuclear non-proliferation and a voluntary level of Russian compensation that Moscow would actually be willing to entertain, instead of high piracy.


This might as well be a russian drafted proposal with some benefits for the US.

Russia keeps the land they've invaded and occupied, and are further rewarded by being granted amnesty for warcrimes and reintegration into the global economy instead of being vilified as the pariah state they are.

Im honestly surprised there was no compensation for north Korea in this too given the amount of troops they sent.

This post was edited by duffman316 on Nov 21 2025 07:41pm
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Nov 21 2025 08:28pm
What are the odds russia pulls another false flag when they decide they want to take more land? Honestly you simply cant trust orcs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings
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Nov 21 2025 08:38pm
What are the odds russia pulls another false flag when they decide they want to take more land? Honestly you simply cant trust orcs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings


You need to move on from mindless jingoism, macabre ethnonationalist obscurantism as well as your racist and dehumanising slurs.
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Nov 21 2025 08:46pm
This might as well be a russian drafted proposal with some benefits for the US.
Russia keeps the land they've invaded and occupied, and are further rewarded by being granted amnesty for warcrimes and reintegration into the global economy instead of being vilified as the pariah state they are.
Im honestly surprised there was no compensation for north Korea in this too given the amount of troops they sent.


Its pretty widely reported that Ukraine requested the amnesty clause to replace an 'investigation for crimes' clause because they wanted immunity from defrauding the US

What are the odds russia pulls another false flag when they decide they want to take more land? Honestly you simply cant trust orcs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings


Well if there are international forces willing to intervene Russia has to go beyond convincing their own domestic audience with a false flag, and establish such an ironclad casus belli that the US/EU wouldn't cross their path.
That's completely different than the previous manufactured incidents like gulf of tomkin, gleiwitz, etc where it just serves as an excuse when the invasion is entirely unilateral
And to make it even remotely convincing to the US, Ukraine would already need to be at near-violent hostilities with Russia preceding any false flag. Otherwise it would just get mediated as a terrorist fringe and Ukraine work with Russia to 'identify and destroy the perpetrators'
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Nov 22 2025 03:22am
BBC headline - Putin backs US plan for ending Ukraine war as Trump gives Kyiv deadline to accept
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Nov 22 2025 05:59am
another double post, my bad.

as i am listening to this i feel its a vile medicine, i think several people won't be able to swallow this one.



This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 22 2025 06:04am
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Nov 22 2025 07:49am
another double post, my bad.

as i am listening to this i feel its a vile medicine, i think several people won't be able to swallow this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjYzyNzB8ZE


Was a good watch

After this war it should be the goal of all civilized decent countries to inflict as much economic hardship on the orcs as possible
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