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Nov 21 2025 08:02am
Putin rather famously brought the post-Yeltsin Russian kleptocracy to heel after taking power, and the country definitely turned the corner on overt corruption and being led by oligarchs, instead those who resisted Putin were crushed and the rest had to pay homage and cede power. Now the driving force in Russian politics is the Putin brand of nationalism, for better or worse. Most post-soviet republicans remained oligarchies rife with corruption and selling influence, and Ukraine was definitely a top example of that pre-Maidan and if anything just got worse as a puppet state post-revolution.

For all their accusations of Russian war crimes and even staging mock tribunals and sentencing POWs, Ukraine's interests in these deals are still more aligned with the oligarchs who pilfered US aid and defrauded their countrymen rather than any earnest desire for justice. Besides tribunals being a geopolitical sore point that would raise tensions in the future and the reasonable case for amnesty to cement peace, ukraine stands to be just as much or more culpable for war crimes as russia. So it seems easy for these ukrainian oligarchs to sneak in a blanket that covers not only the actions of banderite soldiers and sociopathic mercenaries serving in the AFU but also magically absolves their leaders of all liability for stealing US war funds. And given that Zelensky's regime is under serious internal threat from a massive corruption scandal unfolding right now and rumors of dramatic movements (a 'counterattack' by the oligarchs on the nationalists)- that seems like a pressure point that the US can exploit to achieve a peace deal.

Which sadly is in keeping with US policy for decades now. Don't give a shit about the actual welfare of the rest of the world, and just buy them off to stop causing trouble. A handful of ukrainians will have defrauded the US of billions of dollars and get away with it, a small price to pay for world peace


i actually don't fully understand this. or rather, i am not convinced of the weight of it, as related to a peace deal (edit). ultimately there are alot of Ukrainians that have been told for years that they will reclaim all their land. we might see a civil war if they are told, nope, your land is russian now.

anyways, watching this at the moment



This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 21 2025 08:09am
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Nov 21 2025 08:14am
i actually don't fully understand this. or rather, i am not convinced of the weight of it, as related to a peace deal (edit). ultimately there are alot of Ukrainians that have been told for years that they will reclaim all their land. we might see a civil war if they are told, nope, your land is russian now.


Well that comes down to the banderites. Sheep people in the western cities are as likely to lead a revolution as their counterparts in the US/EU. They'd stomach any peace deal that gave away lands in the east, in fact we could do a lot worse to them, and have been
So far the opposition to peace deals has been from EU puppeteers and their vassals, but if the EU swings towards concessions then the last potential threat is the heavily armed ultranationalist true believers and neo-nazis.
And they are the populist force of Ukraine now, so its a real potential for civil war. I've been calling it for years

Historical parallels abound, those who tried to walk the razors edge and maintain a government after losing an existential war and being forced to concessions, particularly with a radicalized militant movement and obviously the specific example of literal nazi post-WW1, well....
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Nov 21 2025 08:21am
I said mid-90s, after the USSR had already been dissolved (somewhat) orderly. Likewise, I wasn't talking about waging war or causing a famine in Russia (they can self-sustain anyway) - but what the US could have done is aggressively expand NATO back then, during the mid-90s, at a time when Russia was took weak to respond. Just bribe the corrupt kleptocrats in charge of Ukraine back then if you want that country so desperately and want to cut Russia off of its trade partners. Likewise, the US could have invested in Central Asia to break away key Russian allies back then (China wasn't nearly strong enough to compete geopolitically).

Also, in which world has Russia, with its 143m people and its outdated industry, any hopes of "outcompeting" China with its ten times larger population and (by now) much more modern industry? The reason Russia would be a helpful ally in the geopolitical competition against China is the vast natural resources and the vast space in Asia which they control, but surely not their competitiveness...


Because the US at that point understand what is " Gentleman's Agreement " There are still heavy weights in both sides of the aisle that are holding the Neo Con's ball tight asf.
Not to mention even when USSR was dissolved, the United States and politicians back then still gave face and respect, as Many of the WW2 Veterans were still alive and kicking and knew that Russia dropped 20 million souls to help win the war.

Unlike of course, like your generation who conveniently forget what happen.

As for now, an example, a lot of trolls on Reddit and 4 Chan are practically denying the atrocities that happen to the Chinese ( Specifically because of the current Geo Political Climate ) saying all the shit and photos they see in regards to what the Japanese did to the ching chongs are " AI / China Propaganda ".
Not knowing that us in South East Asia also went through the same fate with babies being thrown mid air and getting bayonet or being buried alive.

Well , let's see what World War 3 will do to all of us. B)
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Nov 21 2025 08:37am
i actually don't fully understand this. or rather, i am not convinced of the weight of it, as related to a peace deal (edit). ultimately there are alot of Ukrainians that have been told for years that they will reclaim all their land. we might see a civil war if they are told, nope, your land is russian now.

anyways, watching this at the moment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT1vZ5POdKo


I watched it they're convincing you that they're doing everything they can to weed out corruption and that every dollar sent to Ukraine is worth it.

At the end of the vid they even ask for donations, lol. Please send your hard earned cash to Ukraine it gonna be fine
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Nov 21 2025 08:56am
I watched it they're convincing you that they're doing everything they can to weed out corruption and that every dollar sent to Ukraine is worth it.

At the end of the vid they even ask for donations, lol. Please send your hard earned cash to Ukraine it gonna be fine


i tried to watch it but it really was a snore fest. i tend to agree with your sentiment, total bullshit.
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Nov 21 2025 09:01am
I watched it they're convincing you that they're doing everything they can to weed out corruption and that every dollar sent to Ukraine is worth it.

At the end of the vid they even ask for donations, lol. Please send your hard earned cash to Ukraine it gonna be fine


They're telling the truth. They're doing everything to weed out corruption, doesn't mean the results are anywhere near satisfactory. With no war money sent, they'll fold together within weeks, also true.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Nov 21 2025 09:01am
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Nov 21 2025 09:29am
They're telling the truth. They're doing everything to weed out corruption, doesn't mean the results are anywhere near satisfactory. With no war money sent, they'll fold together within weeks, also true.


it feels like a soap opera. no matter how you dress it up, Ukraine is built on unstable foundations and beneath the lick of paint the house has huge cracks in it.
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Nov 21 2025 09:35am
https://x.com/ChristopherJM/status/1991887141090054644

the zelensky script has completely swapped from previous peace deal attempts
todays:

Quote
Now the pressure on Ukraine is one of the most difficult. Now Ukraine may find itself facing a very difficult choice - either the loss of dignity, or the risk of losing a key partner. Either Trump's 28 points, or an extremely difficult winter, the most difficult and further risks. Life without freedom, without dignity, without justice and for us to believe the one who has attacked twice already. They will expect an answer from us.”


last attempt:

Quote
“Ukrainians will not give their land to the occupier,”
"Only those who do not understand the technological state of today's war propose a buffer zone,"
“Any decisions made against us, any decisions made without Ukraine, are at the same time decisions against peace. They will bring nothing. These are dead decisions; they will never work,” Zelensky said in a video address. He added that Ukraine "will not give Russia any awards for what it has done."
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Nov 21 2025 09:39am
https://x.com/ChristopherJM/status/1991887141090054644

the zelensky script has completely swapped from previous peace deal attempts
todays:



last attempt:


it really is fascinating. a lot of mental gymnastics right now.
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Nov 21 2025 09:51am
it really is fascinating. a lot of mental gymnastics right now.


Its really not clear if its got a chance or not. Many claims of EU/UA rejection, Zelensky refuting that and leaving the ball up in the air. Very clearly an opposite tone from previous jingoist "fight on the beaches" rhetoric.
And the reports are Trump is again threatening to rescind US support, financial and weapons, if Ukraine rejects the deal, and is pushing a "by Thanksgiving" deadline so Trump can take his victory lap in time.

Its a showdown. Will it lead to any change in status quo, I don't know. It has a fighting chance
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