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Nov 20 2025 09:48am
The people had a vote on their direction and their representatives. They chose the pro-RU candidate over the pro-EU one. They voted for the governor of Donetsk and the Party of Regions
In a democracy, not all people get their way- but the majority of people do. The majority of their people chose Yanukovych and a minority chose to overthrow him by force, tear down the democracy and put in place a puppet government that stopped holding elections entirely.

The whole idea of a democracy is to give the people their free will to choose the direction of their country. The self-determination of the masses, usually manifesting as a republic with elected representatives given the impracticality of direct democracy at scale. The people didn't choose to cut ties with Russia and seek EU membership, the people didn't choose to 'join a defensive alliance'. NATO powers took over the administration of the Ukrainian government and have micromanaged their affairs. At first they held rump elections wide swathes of Ukrainians disenfranchised, just mock votes as a pretense for legitimacy. Now they don't even bother.


I saw the commentary on rural vs cities earlier but am not entirely convinced that a guy with majority support couldn't simply hold out in a region of the country where he has overwhelming support.
If ukraine held an election tomorrow what do you think the results would be?
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Nov 20 2025 09:49am
And it looks like the body swaps are continuing regularly now
1000 ukrainian dead exchanged for 30 russian dead, which has been the same deal since March 2025
I grant the chart is out of date but its been keeping at this 1000:30 ratio for 8 months now



I don't know if I can google up all of them but its been tracking this year;
june: 1212 ua for 27 ru
september: 1000 ua for 24 ru
october: 1000 ua for 31 ru
november 1000 ua for 30 ru
probably missing some

I saw the commentary on rural vs cities earlier but am not entirely convinced that a guy with majority support couldn't simply hold out in a region of the country where he has overwhelming support.
If ukraine held an election tomorrow what do you think the results would be?


hindsight for us, but at the time it looked like the whole country was going to fall and he'd wind up on a meat hook in the streets
I don't know how an election could possibly be held, because even if we could wave a magic wand and guarantee free secure elections encompassing the former territory of Ukraine, we'd have to account for the massive population shifts as western Ukrainians fled west to the US/EU and Russians immigrated west into the newly incorporated oblasts and such a huge number of western Ukrainians are dead. And they can't vote except for democrats.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Nov 20 2025 09:55am
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Nov 20 2025 09:53am
Gj spreading Russian propaganda :thumbsup:

Do you have actual numbers?
I can provide some for you - send 100fg - with credible sources ofc B)
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Nov 20 2025 09:58am
Gj spreading Russian propaganda :thumbsup:

Do you have actual numbers?
I can provide some for you - send 100fg - with credible sources ofc B)


Yes I have the actual numbers I just posted, widely reported every month when these exchanges take place and as long as eastern and western media agree I see no reason to doubt them
ex;
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckg752y13meo
>The bodies of 1,212 Ukrainian soldiers have been returned from Russia, Kyiv says, as part of a prisoner exchange agreement between the warring countries.
>In return Russia received 27 bodies, Moscow's chief negotiator Vladimir Medinsky said.
https://tass.com/defense/1970449
>Russia has delivered the first batch of 1,212 bodies of Ukrainian soldiers to the exchange point pursuant to the Istanbul accords

If the BBC and Russian state news are posting the same thing, its either true or the world secret jewish cabal is working both sides
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Nov 20 2025 10:15am
The most recent estimates for military deaths in the Russia-Ukraine war as of late 2025 suggest that Russian fatalities are significantly higher than Ukrainian, though exact numbers remain heavily debated. The consensus among several reputable sources is that Russia has lost between 200,000 and 250,000 soldiers killed, while Ukrainian military deaths are estimated at 60,000 to 100,000 over the course of the conflict. Some projects counting confirmed name-by-name deaths report Ukrainian military dead plus missing at approximately 160,941 as of October 2025, but most Western and independent assessments still use the 60,000–100,000 range for Ukrainian deaths.This yields a rough ratio of Russian-to-Ukrainian military deaths in the range of approximately 2:1 or higher—meaning for every Ukrainian soldier killed, about two Russian soldiers have died. However, casualty figures (including wounded) are far higher for both sides: Russia is estimated to have suffered up to 1 million casualties, and Ukraine’s total wounded and killed are over 400,000.
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Nov 20 2025 10:27am
The most recent estimates for military deaths in the Russia-Ukraine war as of late 2025 suggest that Russian fatalities are significantly higher than Ukrainian, though exact numbers remain heavily debated. The consensus among several reputable sources is that Russia has lost between 200,000 and 250,000 soldiers killed, while Ukrainian military deaths are estimated at 60,000 to 100,000 over the course of the conflict. Some projects counting confirmed name-by-name deaths report Ukrainian military dead plus missing at approximately 160,941 as of October 2025, but most Western and independent assessments still use the 60,000–100,000 range for Ukrainian deaths.This yields a rough ratio of Russian-to-Ukrainian military deaths in the range of approximately 2:1 or higher—meaning for every Ukrainian soldier killed, about two Russian soldiers have died. However, casualty figures (including wounded) are far higher for both sides: Russia is estimated to have suffered up to 1 million casualties, and Ukraine’s total wounded and killed are over 400,000.


And Ukrainians all have penises twice the size of Russians, and Zelensky ascended to the moon on a rocket ship to bring the tears of the gods back to earth and the Russian economy is on the brink of collapse 'in the next two weeks'
I do get a chortle from the line "Western and independent". Real white helmets of syria vibes.

Outside of the asylum, we can easily recognize a fog of war and stop trying to pull numbers out of our ass when verifiable ones don't exist. We know Russia and Ukraine are swapping bodies at a consistent 1000:30 ratio that can be verified. We know Russia is recovering the lions share of bodies from both sides because they are on the advance and capturing the ground that secures the remains. We know most casualties have been from bombardment, artillery & drones where Russia has held a substantial advantage. We know Ukraine is severely depopulated, with most military aged males fled or dead or in hiding, we know the TCC is desperate for recruits. We know even UA nationalist politicians openly criticize the high rates of desertion. And we know Russia has taken a slow grinding approach to war instead of trying to blitz areas down at high cost, reducing cities to rubble before advancing when they're totally unoccupied instead of trying to engage in costly urban combat.

When the exact details are unknowable and both sides have every reason to spread propaganda and disinformation, we can only look to the evidence and logic and its painted a pretty consistent picture for a year now
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Nov 20 2025 11:09am
And Ukrainians all have penises twice the size of Russians, and Zelensky ascended to the moon on a rocket ship to bring the tears of the gods back to earth and the Russian economy is on the brink of collapse 'in the next two weeks'
I do get a chortle from the line "Western and independent". Real white helmets of syria vibes.

Outside of the asylum, we can easily recognize a fog of war and stop trying to pull numbers out of our ass when verifiable ones don't exist. We know Russia and Ukraine are swapping bodies at a consistent 1000:30 ratio that can be verified. We know Russia is recovering the lions share of bodies from both sides because they are on the advance and capturing the ground that secures the remains. We know most casualties have been from bombardment, artillery & drones where Russia has held a substantial advantage. We know Ukraine is severely depopulated, with most military aged males fled or dead or in hiding, we know the TCC is desperate for recruits. We know even UA nationalist politicians openly criticize the high rates of desertion. And we know Russia has taken a slow grinding approach to war instead of trying to blitz areas down at high cost, reducing cities to rubble before advancing when they're totally unoccupied instead of trying to engage in costly urban combat.

When the exact details are unknowable and both sides have every reason to spread propaganda and disinformation, we can only look to the evidence and logic and its painted a pretty consistent picture for a year now


Schlong Military Operation
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Nov 20 2025 11:15am
you will have to reduce the size norlander
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Nov 20 2025 11:18am
you will have to reduce the size norlander


Again?
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Nov 20 2025 11:25am
Again?


im not reducing them for you. forget it.
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