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Nov 19 2025 12:21pm
Details of Trump's (newest) proposal for ending the Ukraine war have been leaked ahead of their formal announcement

The deal would call on Ukraine to cede its remaining 12% of the Donbas and Russia would gain this territory but only as a demilitarized zone to serve as a buffer, while Kherson and Zaphorizhia would see the status quo lines frozen with some negotiated land swaps. Ukraine would not join NATO and would agree to reduce a % of its armed forces rather than full disarmament (purportedly a "50% reduction", but that's so nebulous given how ukraines military has already been reduced more than that). And the US would make a security guarantee that the US would intervene directly if Russia invaded any further.
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Nov 19 2025 12:28pm
Details of Trump's (newest) proposal for ending the Ukraine war have been leaked ahead of their formal announcement

The deal would call on Ukraine to cede its remaining 12% of the Donbas and Russia would gain this territory but only as a demilitarized zone to serve as a buffer, while Kherson and Zaphorizhia would see the status quo lines frozen with some negotiated land swaps. Ukraine would not join NATO and would agree to reduce a % of its armed forces rather than full disarmament (purportedly a "50% reduction", but that's so nebulous given how ukraines military has already been reduced more than that). And the US would make a security guarantee that the US would intervene directly if Russia invaded any further.


This sounds reasonable.

I don’t see US signing off on military guarantee though.
Also sanctions? Lifted? EU as well?
What about intl recognition of land gains?

This post was edited by Malopox on Nov 19 2025 12:31pm
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Nov 19 2025 03:14pm
Not surprised trump is eager to support imperialist land grabs by orcs
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Nov 19 2025 04:51pm
Not surprised trump is eager to support imperialist land grabs by orcs


You’re right, the alternative of another million dead and Ukraine slowing losing another oblast or two is preferable
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Nov 19 2025 05:01pm
You’re right, the alternative of another million dead and Ukraine slowing losing another oblast or two is preferable


Lose it now, lose it later, what does it matter? Why pretend to care when you'll be cheering for russia next time too?

Iirc ukraine was assured peace by russia when they gave up their nukes and we see how that turned out. Not to mention putin is on the record for not recognizing Ukrainian sovereignty.

This post was edited by duffman316 on Nov 19 2025 05:02pm
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Nov 19 2025 05:37pm
Lose it now, lose it later, what does it matter? Why pretend to care when you'll be cheering for russia next time too?

Iirc ukraine was assured peace by russia when they gave up their nukes and we see how that turned out. Not to mention putin is on the record for not recognizing Ukrainian sovereignty.


I’m asking you what alternative do you want? Just say it instead of beating around the bush. You want the war to continue because maybe Russia will invade later?
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Nov 19 2025 06:36pm
Details of Trump's (newest) proposal for ending the Ukraine war have been leaked ahead of their formal announcement

The deal would call on Ukraine to cede its remaining 12% of the Donbas and Russia would gain this territory but only as a demilitarized zone to serve as a buffer, while Kherson and Zaphorizhia would see the status quo lines frozen with some negotiated land swaps. Ukraine would not join NATO and would agree to reduce a % of its armed forces rather than full disarmament (purportedly a "50% reduction", but that's so nebulous given how ukraines military has already been reduced more than that). And the US would make a security guarantee that the US would intervene directly if Russia invaded any further.


Any details on the international relationships permitted for rump-Ukraine? Would they be allowed to join the EU? Could they become a privileged NATO partner, even if not an outright member of the alliance? Could rump-Ukraine host NATO troops on its territory? (The latter point would help a ton with giving credibility to the "US intervenes if Russia invades any further" part of the deal.) And what about guarantees for Ukraine that Russia will not impede shipment on the Dnieper river?

Either way, I'm sceptical. As I've already said months ago, the specifics of security guarantees for Ukraine will be the real crux of any negotiated peace. I have a hard time imagining that isolationist Trump, of all people, is the one who would believably commit the US to war against Russia over a shithole country like Ukraine. Just to name one obvious example: what if Russia partly violates the deal and deploys troops to the demilitarized buffer zone which will be under its control? Would Trump seriously declare war on Russia over that? We all know the answer, don't we?



I welcome this initiative and think the rough contours make sense, but there's still a ton of heavy lifting to be done before an actual breakthrough toward peace is achieved.
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Nov 19 2025 07:00pm
I’m asking you what alternative do you want? Just say it instead of beating around the bush. You want the war to continue because maybe Russia will invade later?


A realistic end to this is russia keeping the lands its occupied, maybe for a decade or so until the next invasion when ukraine or what's left of it decides to get closer to nato at which point putin or his successor will want more.

As for what I want, I just want old nutters to die already

This post was edited by duffman316 on Nov 19 2025 07:01pm
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Nov 19 2025 07:37pm
Any details on the international relationships permitted for rump-Ukraine? Would they be allowed to join the EU? Could they become a privileged NATO partner, even if not an outright member of the alliance? Could rump-Ukraine host NATO troops on its territory? (The latter point would help a ton with giving credibility to the "US intervenes if Russia invades any further" part of the deal.) And what about guarantees for Ukraine that Russia will not impede shipment on the Dnieper river?

Either way, I'm sceptical. As I've already said months ago, the specifics of security guarantees for Ukraine will be the real crux of any negotiated peace. I have a hard time imagining that isolationist Trump, of all people, is the one who would believably commit the US to war against Russia over a shithole country like Ukraine. Just to name one obvious example: what if Russia partly violates the deal and deploys troops to the demilitarized buffer zone which will be under its control? Would Trump seriously declare war on Russia over that? We all know the answer, don't we?

I welcome this initiative and think the rough contours make sense, but there's still a ton of heavy lifting to be done before an actual breakthrough toward peace is achieved.


I don't think the proposal has been made public yet so we're just getting scraps of leaks so far. And they aren't clear:

Quote
Under the proposal, Russia would be granted de facto control of Ukraine’s Donbas region despite Ukraine still holding around 14.5 percent of that territory. The area that Kyiv withdraws from would be considered a demilitarized zone, meaning Russia could not position troops there. The current lines of control in the Ukrainian regions of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia would largely be frozen in place, with Russia returning some land subject to negotiations. And while Ukraine would not be required to recognize Moscow’s claimed territory, the United States and other countries would accept that Crimea and the Donbas are lawfully part of Russia.

In exchange, Washington would provide security guarantees for Ukraine and the rest of Europe to ward against future Russian aggression. Kyiv may also be forced to give up some weapons and cut the size of its armed forces, per Reuters. It is unclear if the deal paves a pathway for Ukraine to eventually join the European Union or NATO, a condition that Moscow vehemently rejects.


I don't think there's any way they would be allowing the non-starter Ukraine-in-NATO alongside whatever degree of security guarantee while cutting military buildup is called for, because that would be contradictory/redundant. If they're just going to join NATO and have an Article V alliance security guarantee and be stationing forwards NATO weapons systems, it would completely moot any such security guarantee while negating the disarmament. We may not know the exacts here, but we can predict with 99.9% certainty its some anti-NATO expansion clause.
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Nov 19 2025 08:51pm
Surely this will end with a re-election

And I doubt the green goblin will be allowed to stand.

What are the likelihood he will fly off with his cache

My guess Argentina. Far enough for possible assassination. Also, no countries around will have the ability to give him anymore ironclad guarantees that he will be alive.

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