i posted this earlier in the other thread, i had not seen this post.

(the below is from Al Jazeera, I accept you dont like that site and that you may contest some of this)

One month into the declaration of a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip, Israel has violated the agreement with near-daily attacks, killing hundreds of people. Israel violated the ceasefire agreement at least 282 times from October 10 to November 10, through the continuation of attacks by air, artillery and direct shootings, the Government Media Office in Gaza reports. The office said Israel shot at civilians 88 times, raided residential areas beyond the “yellow line” 12 times, bombed Gaza 124 times, and demolished people’s properties on 52 occasions. It added that Israel also detained 23 Palestinians from Gaza over the past month. Israel has also continued to block vital humanitarian aid and destroy homes and infrastructure across the Strip.

so as I understand it the security council resolution would see all of Gaza demilitarized, defenseless, which, while noble in isolation, skips over the above violations. Its hard for Hamas to trust Israel, or anyone (the international community), when the ceasefire is being broken daily and europe continues to supply Israel with bombs and political cover. As I understand it, the root issue for Hamas, is Palestinian statehood, and as far as I am aware we are no where near that.



he has 23 posts and magically found his way to this subsection.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 18 2025 11:31am

Well, that’s sums it up , isn’t it ?
How many of those violations were because of violations from Hamas ? And if so, are they really are violations ? Don’t understand me wrong, sure there were violations. And I have no problem with Al Jazeera, it’s not that I don’t like them, it’s just their reports are full with holes, one sided and pretty much looks like my 5 year old could do a better job. That’s not journalism, it’s abomination. It’s PR.

Your post deliver a dangerous and twisted massage:
A. Israel, and only Israel, violates cease fire. No matter why.
B. A crime against humanity committing organization is the protector of Gaza. Without them, the Palestinians in Gaza will be “defence less” - as in oppose to now that they have defence. I remind you that this same organization answered that’s it’s the UN and Israel’s responsibility to take care of Palestinians when being asked about why not letting them enter the tunnels.

Following this thread, you should be overjoyed by the amount of international supervision that about to come to Israel and Gaza. To catch those violations, make sure the Palestinians have the aid that they need , and deal with the Israelis. Aren’t you?

And with all do respect, I don’t give a rats ass what a crime against humanity committing organization feels.

hi sorry, there is a bit of an overlap across threads, i responded to the Delta guy here - https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=107148165&f=119&o=300
not sure if i should respond to your post here or there.

in terms of joy etc. there is no joy in anything related to Gaza. to my mind the "plan" for gaza is fundamentally flawed. i'll sidestep your comments related to crimes against humanity as well, if thats ok.

As the Gaza Deal thread is the add-on, and this is the main thread, here is a copy of what i said there:

I cannot find any evidence to support the notion that Israeli civilians have been killed in the last month. neither can i find evidence to support the notion that Hamas carried out raids into Israel, or that they are collectively punishing Israel by not supplying food, water or electricity. you know that, i know that, everyone knows that. so what violations are hamas committing ?

you previously championed the doctrine of overwhelming force, you understand where I am going with this right? here you go, here is your "well there you have it, they deserve to be killed".

1. As part of the cease fire, Hamas had to return the bodies of all the dead hostages. this has not been done. 11 (afaik) bodies of hostages are still unaccounted for.
2. AFAIK 3 Israeli soldiers were killed in or around Rafah in the last month by Hamas.
3. The IDF claims that on a few occasions, alleged Hamas operatives moved beyond the agreed ceasefire boundaries

Hamas violations exist, but they are limited in scope and far less extensive than the Israeli violations being reported. However, in keeping with your doctrine, this is sufficient for Israel to continue doing what it is doing. Of course by Israel, i mean the Israeli government and the IDF, i accept that 12% of Israel did not support this, only 88% did.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 18 2025 12:40pm

sorry for double post, some minor points -

1. There remains serious restrictions in place in Israeli media related to reporting on the war.
2. There remains serious restrictions in place on the international media and access to Gaza.
3. Historically, Hamas’s figures have often been accurate, which is why they are frequently cited by the international community, though independent verification remains limited in the current conflict due to access restrictions.

therefore i will take Al Jazeera as a source. if you want to refute the numbers, go ahead and we can dive into them.

still hung up on Hamas. I contend that if Hamas was obliterated yesterday, a similar group would emerge from every bomb, CURRENTLY, being dropped in Gaza, today. you dont need to sell Hamas as a terrorist organization, i get it. We have never moved beyond this point since Oct 7th. I contend everything Israel is doing is causing future strife.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 18 2025 12:51pm

This game of equations is not acceptable by me or by the Israeli public. If Hamas crosses the cease fire line, they should be killed and a further retaliation should be carried out.
Notice how every violation by Hamas is “alleged”.

We do not need to argue every day, but there are a lot of problems with what you’re saying.

You claim every Hamas violation is “alleged,” but the reason they’re alleged is because Israel tightly restricts reporting - both domestic and international. When no independent journalists are allowed into Gaza and Israeli media must clear war‑related content with the military censor, almost everything ends up being “alleged” by definition. But here’s the real issue with your argument: over the last two years, Israel has repeatedly killed Palestinian civilians, not fighters, for crossing invisible, shifting “no‑go lines” inside Gaza. These weren’t armed militants breaching a ceasefire boundary. They were civilians approaching areas Israel unilaterally designated as off‑limits.

So your equation works both ways - If you believe Hamas fighters crossing a line should be killed, then you also have to acknowledge that Israel has been killing unarmed civilians for crossing lines they often didn’t even know existed. And since you’ve never argued that every Gazan is Hamas — that was the other guy — this falls pretty squarely into the category of collective punishment, which you do subscribe to. And the fact remains: Hamas has not killed Israeli civilians in the last month, while Israel continues to kill civilians. That contrast speaks for itself and no amount of trying to discredit Al Jazeera changes that.

it is difficult to marry the notion of seeking to maintain a cease fire with what is happening. As I understand it the Yellow line is one of many lines, it is fragmented and in places invisible. If I marry your post to previous notions of collective punishment then i get this scenario: a girl crosses an invisible line, she is shot and killed by the IDF. then, based on your argument, the IDF finds where she came from and kills the whole family. This is not enforcing peace. Retaliation for walking.

I remain unconvinced re: the plan for Gaza or Israel's long term plans for Gaza and the West Bank.

i made a few edits here. all done now.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 18 2025 01:11pm

We’ll agree to disagree.
I’m very much happy that the international community enforces an arrangement that is inconvenient both for Palestinians and Israelis a like. I’m sure my current government would like to extend the Gaza war indefinite. I’m sure the Palestinians won’t agree to anything else than Jews out (not from Gaza , from the entire Israel yes?)

Reality is more than just black and white. I suppose if a girl crosses the line she probably won’t get killed. I rely on my own experience in the IDF in conflict zones, but maybe the IDF changed. You are entitled ofc to think otherwise.

When describing sources of info and freedom of press, I always think of the following -
One side is always align. No other voices, no other options, single narrative.
The other side has at least 4 channels which are against the regime and something like 3 newspapers siding with the other side.
I’ll let you figure out which side is which.

Finally, we are not arguing. We are debating :-)

in my opinion ~

From what I understand, there is no meaningful "Left" in Israeli politics. There is Far Right (in power), leaning Far Right, Right, and then a Middle. Netanyahu is in government leaning into Far Right. The next government will by default be Leaning Right, if not Hard Right, that is to say, it is expected to continue to increase new settlements in the West Bank and will continue to be highly nationalist. As part of Israeli culture, military service is ingrained into its citizens, and, as part of Israeli culture, the plight of Palestinians, or rather, those residing in the West Bank and Gaza that Israel does not and will not relate to, are largely seen to be irrelevant. There is a small minority in Israel that do not believe that Israels course of action is correct. Agencies such as B’Tselem documents violations in the West Bank and Gaza but are an irritant rather then being relevant in Israeli society, ditto for Politicians on the left or middle. Fundamentally the cultural history of Israel and its Hawkish position means that we cannot expect an end to Apartment or the two-state system that exists within Israel as compared to South Africa, noting the habitual and repeated military actions taken by the state, which prevent any progress for peace.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 18 2025 02:51pm

Just making sure we keep this wonderful topic alive. I asked ChatGPT about the meaning of the word "war" and after a bit of debate I got this:

The war between Hamas and the IDF began with the large-scale attacks by Hamas on 7 October 2023, followed by a massive Israeli military response. In the immediate aftermath, the conflict clearly resembled a two-sided war, with intense fighting, rocket attacks by Hamas, and airstrikes and ground operations by the IDF. Civilian harm in Gaza was extremely high, with thousands killed and widespread destruction of infrastructure.

Over the months following October 2023, however, the intensity of Hamas’s offensive operations against Israel dropped sharply. Rocket attacks, missile launches, and other offensive actions by Hamas and allied groups became sporadic and lower in scale. In contrast, IDF operations in Gaza, including airstrikes, artillery bombardments, and targeted raids, continued at a high and relatively sustained level. Civilian casualties and infrastructure damage in Gaza remained high throughout this period, largely independent of Gaza-origin attacks.

Based on publicly reported data, the divergence in intensity between IDF and Hamas operations became most apparent in late 2023 and early 2024. While the conflict has not formally ended and occasional exchanges continue, the sustained, high-intensity bombardment of Gaza by Israel, coupled with the reduced offensive activity by Hamas, indicates a shift away from war toward a de facto one-sided bombardment of the enclave.

In summary, while the term “war” still applies in some respects due to sporadic clashes and ongoing hostilities, the overall pattern since early 2024 has been asymmetric, with the IDF conducting the bulk of military operations and Hamas largely maintaining a defensive or non-active posture. This assessment emphasizes the gradual and asymmetric nature of the conflict rather than a sudden, discrete transition from war to one-sided bombardment.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 26 2025 12:56pm