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Nov 14 2025 06:33pm
the whole "who started the violence" is a bit of chicken and egg. did he start busting up protesters that weren't backed by the CIA first? or did the CIA back them first and then they got busted up? answers seem to differ, no surprise there.

as to the trying to start a "legitimate" revolution in the eastern districts i think that's a fantasy. the new govt bombed the hell out of them even before Russia invaded, i doubt he'd have had any more success, and his presence there wouldnt have triggers UN or NATO action. the new govt was given free rein.

semantics on my use of "broad support" arent really worth arguing. he won the election, he did go back on a campaign promise, and it did get violent as a result. that's a long way contextually from what prompted my comment. He didnt send in the army to violently and quickly put down protests, but he could have. he didnt instruct them to shoot at will when the protests turns to a revolution, and he could have. that's not a defense of him or his presidency, not a denial of his corruption. its just a contrast from Duffs post which seemed to imply he was a butcher, and he wasn't.


I think the more important argument is where it shouldn't matter whether its the chicken or egg from any lens
They're not legitimate either way, nor do they actually hold control of the east so they can't just say might makes right.

If Yanukovych was the bloodthirsty tyrant they pretend he is, and the revolutionaries morally justified (despite being nazis), it would still be an illegitimate overthrow of a democracy and replacing it with an autocracy. They would still be throwing out the constitutional levers of power and electoral recourse, they'd be disenfranchising everyone in the east and banning all opposition and massacring dissidents, and now just ending elections entirely. They aren't legitimate either way. And they clearly don't have the military power to exert their will over the separatist regions. Their claim is neither de facto nor de jure.
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Nov 14 2025 08:41pm
this does not make sense. your saying that Yanukovych was stinking rich and are suggesting that this is why he did not violently suppress the uprising against him? this does not make sense. your forcing a narrative.

also this makes no sense either

the eastern provinces were BOMBED for 7 years!!

come on. its not hard for me to say putin is a dictator and that russia does not have alot to offer, but at the same time i can outline some rational reasons as to why Russia invaded Ukraine. 1+1=2. what you are doing here is 1+1=7


I had to look this up as it could sway my view but it looks like its just another ukraine vs russia war given that the Russian controlled the separatists

As for your last comment, i fully understand the logic that ukraine trying to ally itself with the west would provoke russia but isn't that essentially just victim blaming? We all know russia is run by cunts so ukraine should've done as it was told if they knew what was good for them?

This post was edited by duffman316 on Nov 14 2025 08:59pm
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Nov 15 2025 02:00am
I had to look this up as it could sway my view but it looks like its just another ukraine vs russia war given that the Russian controlled the separatists

As for your last comment, i fully understand the logic that ukraine trying to ally itself with the west would provoke russia but isn't that essentially just victim blaming? We all know russia is run by cunts so ukraine should've done as it was told if they knew what was good for them?


what did you have to look up?

aside from that, eastern ukraine allied itself with Russia AFTER the US backed coup. you speak of victim blaming but what of the eastern ukrainians after we KNOW what happened in 2014?? what about the 15,000 dead eastern ukrainians? are they not victims too?

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 15 2025 02:17am
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Nov 15 2025 08:58am
I had to look this up as it could sway my view but it looks like its just another ukraine vs russia war given that the Russian controlled the separatists

As for your last comment, i fully understand the logic that ukraine trying to ally itself with the west would provoke russia but isn't that essentially just victim blaming? We all know russia is run by cunts so ukraine should've done as it was told if they knew what was good for them?


Russians only took Crimea in the immediate aftermath of the Maidan, with troops arriving within a day, a referendum held and Crimea absorbed within a month. But Russia did not act to take the separatist DPR/LPR for 7 more years. Their involvement was much like the west in Ukraine- surrepticious weapons and small numbers of nonuniformed support operatives working alongside the much larger group of partisans inside Ukraine, all while trying to negotiate a diplomatic resolution. The US was doing the same in the west. Both sides had mercenaries. It didn't evolved into a hot war until after the olympics.

Russia was never going to let Crimea go in a million years, but the separatist regions were much different. And even inside the major cities and border areas of Ukraine there were massacres and clashes between pro RU ukrainians and pro Nazi ukrainians. Odessa in March is the clear example, it was a group of loyalists murdered by revolutionaries. 7 years of civil war with a proxy backing from other world powers

Most conflicts these days are like that, the RSF and Sudanese military arent fighting 'on their own', but its definitely a civil war between domestic factions. Try to find a war that isnt a proxy conflict.
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Nov 15 2025 10:34pm
what did you have to look up?

aside from that, eastern ukraine allied itself with Russia AFTER the US backed coup. you speak of victim blaming but what of the eastern ukrainians after we KNOW what happened in 2014?? what about the 15,000 dead eastern ukrainians? are they not victims too?


Russians only took Crimea in the immediate aftermath of the Maidan, with troops arriving within a day, a referendum held and Crimea absorbed within a month. But Russia did not act to take the separatist DPR/LPR for 7 more years. Their involvement was much like the west in Ukraine- surrepticious weapons and small numbers of nonuniformed support operatives working alongside the much larger group of partisans inside Ukraine, all while trying to negotiate a diplomatic resolution. The US was doing the same in the west. Both sides had mercenaries. It didn't evolved into a hot war until after the olympics.

Russia was never going to let Crimea go in a million years, but the separatist regions were much different. And even inside the major cities and border areas of Ukraine there were massacres and clashes between pro RU ukrainians and pro Nazi ukrainians. Odessa in March is the clear example, it was a group of loyalists murdered by revolutionaries. 7 years of civil war with a proxy backing from other world powers

Most conflicts these days are like that, the RSF and Sudanese military arent fighting 'on their own', but its definitely a civil war between domestic factions. Try to find a war that isnt a proxy conflict.


Out of curiosity do you feel a ukraine wall is the solution to this situation? And if so do you find fhe fall of the Berlin wall to be a tragedy?
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Nov 16 2025 12:28am

Freudian slip by Ukranian propagandists.
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Nov 16 2025 01:07am
Out of curiosity do you feel a ukraine wall is the solution to this situation? And if so do you find fhe fall of the Berlin wall to be a tragedy?


I think I predicted a DMZ between the sides as an outcome the same day Russia invaded. A wall is not feasible in an era of drones, missiles and aircraft. The Berlin wall was motivated by the east wanting to stop citizens fleeing to the west. Today we've got Ukrainian civilians being killed while trying to flee to the east.

Its far more likely a peace deal is struck with Ukraine staying a militarized country, than for it to collapse and Russia to occupy its entirety. And as long as Ukraine is stocked with western arms and Russia holds the separatist oblasts and there is a border between them, we've inevitably got a DMZ scenario. What will it evolve to? Will it he a heavily land mined, guard tower and barbed wire hellscape? It hasnt served the norks well. It'll likely be defined by rivers and former farmlands, and I'd like to believe a peace deal could keep a demilitarized zone actually demilitarized this time around
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Nov 16 2025 02:03pm
Pokrovsk is actively in the process of being seized if not already. Let me guess, Ukraine is still "winning?" Why can't folks both support Ukraine and also tell the truth?
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Nov 16 2025 05:27pm
I think I predicted a DMZ between the sides as an outcome the same day Russia invaded. A wall is not feasible in an era of drones, missiles and aircraft. The Berlin wall was motivated by the east wanting to stop citizens fleeing to the west. Today we've got Ukrainian civilians being killed while trying to flee to the east.

Its far more likely a peace deal is struck with Ukraine staying a militarized country, than for it to collapse and Russia to occupy its entirety. And as long as Ukraine is stocked with western arms and Russia holds the separatist oblasts and there is a border between them, we've inevitably got a DMZ scenario. What will it evolve to? Will it he a heavily land mined, guard tower and barbed wire hellscape? It hasnt served the norks well. It'll likely be defined by rivers and former farmlands, and I'd like to believe a peace deal could keep a demilitarized zone actually demilitarized this time around


i certainly dont see ukraine collapsing, or russia taking over all of ukraine for that matter either. its not practical.

Pokrovsk is actively in the process of being seized if not already. Let me guess, Ukraine is still "winning?" Why can't folks both support Ukraine and also tell the truth?


i think alot of people just see black and white - everything the baddy does is black, everything the goodie does is white. with that mindset they can ignore alot of stuff.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 16 2025 05:28pm
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Nov 17 2025 06:37am
"Macron, Zelensky sign accord for Ukraine to buy up to 100 French fighter jets "
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