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Sep 30 2025 05:32am
Siegel M, Ross CS, King C 3rd. The relationship between gun ownership and firearm homicide rates in the United States, 1981-2010. Am J Public Health. 2013 Nov;103(11):2098-105. doi: 10.2105/AJPH.2013.301409. Epub 2013 Sep 12. PMID: 24028252; PMCID: PMC3828709.

This is literally what he asked. Literally. The fact that you reply with what you did, is a great example of how MAGA handles every criticism: denial and deflection.


Again that's not what he asked. He asked for correlation of gun ownership and homicide rate not gun homicide rate.
Believe it or not, the rate of horse-trampling deaths goes up +1% for every +1% ownership of a horse as sole means of transport and rate of motor vehicle collision death goes up +1% for every +1% ownership of a car
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Sep 30 2025 05:45am
I would then argue that giving up a little freedom to stop school shootings from happening is not a bad thing, and I would argue that social studies don't show improved quality of life in the US in comparison to, for instance, Denmark. Furthermore, I would argue that posting certain things on certain media does still get you in trouble in the US - especially now, when the biggest social media platforms are all owned by the same handful of people.

Someone else mentioned that having an armed population is protective against foreign invasion. I would argue that the cold war showed no such protective effect, in fact, those were amongst the most tense times. One could also make a case for the lack of adaptiveness of firearms against modern warfare, such as drones, but I personally find that a weak argument. Firearms still very much have a function in war in 2025.



Have you a source for your numbers? iirc the gun and car related deaths are not that far from one another in the US in most years (I do think the vehicles are currently winning in that they cause more death atm, but curious how 2025 will turn out lol).


though you didn't really substantiate this argument with the cold war, if we assume the particular event where evil won a battle against the good here despite citizens access to guns is true, it doesn't negate the universal that the good ought be defended, and the implication is to defend the good the defenders necessarily must have the means to act.

the american culture has the presupposition that the citizens, as a monolith, are the defenders of the good and thus the right to bear arms shall not be infringed

This post was edited by majorblood on Sep 30 2025 05:47am
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Sep 30 2025 05:49am
Again that's not what he asked. He asked for correlation of gun ownership and homicide rate not gun homicide rate.
Believe it or not, the rate of horse-trampling deaths goes up +1% for every +1% ownership of a horse as sole means of transport and rate of motor vehicle collision death goes up +1% for every +1% ownership of a car


This is neither how percentages nor how conditional probabilities work, do you need help with maths?

This is fun because there is an objective truth here you can not just lie about, please explain your numbers.

This post was edited by SkySwallower on Sep 30 2025 05:50am
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Sep 30 2025 06:02am
This is neither how percentages nor how conditional probabilities work, do you need help with maths?

This is fun because there is an objective truth here you can not just lie about, please explain your numbers.


The others are using the wrong argument.
The correct one is this, it don't matter what studies or proofs you have.
Let's say your studies are 100% correct.
So what?
Do you think the founding fathers didn't know guns are dangerous?
Guns are very dangerous and that is exactly why they wanted us to have them and the more dangerous, the better.



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Sep 30 2025 09:23am
Siegel M, Ross CS, King C 3rd. The relationship between gun ownership and firearm homicide rates in the United States, 1981-2010. Am J Public Health. 2013 Nov;103(11):2098-105. doi: 10.2105/AJPH.2013.301409. Epub 2013 Sep 12. PMID: 24028252; PMCID: PMC3828709.

"Gun ownership was a significant predictor of firearm homicide rates (incidence rate ratio = 1.009; 95% confidence interval = 1.004, 1.014). This model indicated that for each percentage point increase in gun ownership, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%."

This took 12 seconds. The article is freely available. There are other reasons to ban guns from homes, such as accidental fatalities due to guns. See below.
Vaishnav A, Smith GA, Badeti J, Michaels NL. An epidemiological study of unintentional pediatric firearm fatalities in the USA, 2009-2018. Inj Epidemiol. 2023 Jun 26;10(1):25. doi: 10.1186/s40621-023-00438-5. PMID: 37357309; PMCID: PMC10291813.

As well as relationship with DV... Below also cites studies that tell you guns are now the leading cause of child death in the US (as opposed to vehicles, which was suggested earlier in this post). But again, iirc vehicle related child death Vs. gun related child death tends to be a close call and they tend to switch roles every year or so.
Lockwood K, Rowe C, Sager E. Policy Recommendations to Address the Nexus of Domestic Violence and Gun Violence. N C Med J. 2023 Jul;84(4):233-237. doi: 10.18043/001c.81269. PMID: 39302302.




Where have you ever seen anyone argue that the 2nd amendment should be amended (word choice intended) to prevent having to hold people accountable for their actions?
You can decrease the risk of events happening - AND hold the culprits of such events accountable. It's an option.

You argued for armed guards in front of schools. This is done in zero western countries. Is your "potential to deflect a possible detrimental event" with your 2nd amendment, really worth denying that gun prohibition.. simply works, lol?
Carl Sagan has made an argument about how much investment is worth what kind of detrimental event, and used this argument to compare the cold war costs for the US (enough to buy 100% of the materialistic content of the US, and US property outside the US, with exception of the US land itself) with the investment being made to the detrimental event of natural catastrophies due to humanity's influence on the environment. The cold war fear of Russian invasion never happened, but it was argued that one must be prepared for such an event and one must be willing to go to great financial lengths to enable this preparation, for the unlikely event, because of the severity of this unlikely event.
I posted it below, it's an interesting monologue for either side of the political scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C6co5qXEE4

/e I also personally believe that posting guards will only incite more mass shootings at schools, but I haven't data to back this up and can not be fucked to look it up. That'd be a longer search and argument, and I am not going to write a thesis of how certain barriers to an event actually incite the event. Too much unpaid work ^^


My point was that democrats just use kids as pawns to pull at people’s heart strings. If they really cared, they would protect schools AND try to legislate guns, not just stubbornly obsess over legislation. Criminals break laws - no amount of laws will stop a criminal. Even if guns are completely outlawed, what we have now will be in rotation for the next 50 years. If they cared about saving lives, they would take an “any means necessary” approach, not their “my way or the highway” approach.
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Sep 30 2025 10:21am
Out of the people who responded to my attempt at a dialogue, one grossly misinterprets data, one stands with "'mkay, guns are bad, but look at the left not putting up guards!" without responding to the uttered possibility that having a guard may incite events rather than prevent them, one says the collateral damage must be accepted because of the remote possibility that mayhaps someday people may need the guns to fend for themselves in case a domestic or foreign enemy endangers the US citizens - disregarding the ethical and moral facets of the discussion entirely, and one bases his position on a quote from very different times indeed.

I applaud you for at least providing a counterargument, majorblood. You're uniquely sophisticated as compared to the other partakers. I'll take my leave now >.>

(/e One could argue that a domestic occurrence is currently happening with the Trump administration, as it is indeed endangering your way of life, but alas, the arms are not picked up because he's made the US citizens believe he's the savior rather than the culprit. Surely this should remind some of you towards different historical figures?)

This post was edited by Leeevee on Sep 30 2025 10:23am
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Sep 30 2025 10:31am
The others are using the wrong argument.
The correct one is this, it don't matter what studies or proofs you have.
Let's say your studies are 100% correct.
So what?
Do you think the founding fathers didn't know guns are dangerous?
Guns are very dangerous and that is exactly why they wanted us to have them and the more dangerous, the better.

https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-the-best-we-can-hope-for-concerning-the-people-at-large-is-that-they-be-properly-armed-alexander-hamilton-57-76-89.jpg


Pushing that criminal agenda.
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Sep 30 2025 10:33am
Siegel M, Ross CS, King C 3rd. The relationship between gun ownership and firearm homicide rates in the United States, 1981-2010. Am J Public Health. 2013 Nov;103(11):2098-105. doi: 10.2105/AJPH.2013.301409. Epub 2013 Sep 12. PMID: 24028252; PMCID: PMC3828709.

This is literally what he asked. Literally. The fact that you reply with what you did, is a great example of how MAGA handles every criticism: denial and deflection.


I’m not "MAGA" nor am I American. He asked for the relationship between gun ownership and homicides at large, not gun homicides specifically.
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Sep 30 2025 10:43am
Pushing that patriot agenda.


Chet Ubetcha!

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Sep 30 2025 11:16am
Out of the people who responded to my attempt at a dialogue, one grossly misinterprets data, one stands with "'mkay, guns are bad, but look at the left not putting up guards!" without responding to the uttered possibility that having a guard may incite events rather than prevent them, one says the collateral damage must be accepted because of the remote possibility that mayhaps someday people may need the guns to fend for themselves in case a domestic or foreign enemy endangers the US citizens - disregarding the ethical and moral facets of the discussion entirely, and one bases his position on a quote from very different times indeed.

I applaud you for at least providing a counterargument, majorblood. You're uniquely sophisticated as compared to the other partakers. I'll take my leave now >.>

(/e One could argue that a domestic occurrence is currently happening with the Trump administration, as it is indeed endangering your way of life, but alas, the arms are not picked up because he's made the US citizens believe he's the savior rather than the culprit. Surely this should remind some of you towards different historical figures?)


Since you’re incapable of doing research and just like to make unsubstantiated claims. Here’s a study about how a police presence reduces crime. This was done AT A SCHOOL by the way.

https://publicsafety.jhu.edu/assets/uploads/sites/9/2024/12/effect_of_privately_provided_police_services_on_crime.pdf
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