I just tried putting a griffons on a mosaic and it adds the same amount of dmg as a skill gc. Does this mean facets are useless on a mosaic?

It has nothing to do with the +% dmg
it's all about the -% res

For exemple, using sunder + infinity, against a light immune
95 - 17 = 78% light res
you deal 22% of your normal dmg.

Add a -20% griff?
Now down to 58% light res, you deal 42% of your normal dmg.

42/22= 91% total dmg increase

That said... if you build a proper mosaic sin at 102fcr, the only open socket you have is in griff, and it should be used for a cham. You want that CbF and you have no room for a raven, else you'll be down to the 65fcr bp.

So a 20/15 griffon's adds the same dmg as a 15/15 griffon's correct? The question I have to ask is why do people look for 15% LD on mosaic claws when it makes no difference?

correction : 20/15 griff is -20 / +15

so your statement should have been : "So a 20/10 griffon's adds the same dmg as a 20/15 griffon's correct?"

But the real answer is a small no.
The +% light dmg only applies to the charge 1 of CoT
Pretty irrelevant indeed haha

Griff is still by far the best option, for the light pen and 25fcr

Now, lots of people would disagree with this next statement...
20/10 is better than 20/15
Why?
Because when you reduce the dmg of CoT's 1st charge, which is only a single target dmg, you also decrease your chances to kill the target at a faster pace than all those around.
This dmg discrepancy between your single target dps vs Aoe dmg dps could result in killing it before you are done delivering all charges, making those around survive with low hp.
Does it happen often? Nope... but still, why would you pay much more for a griff to only reduce the overall build effectiveness lol

20/15 is only slightly better than 20/10 if you use mosaic for ubers, or pvp (lol)

This post was edited by SinsOfTheSun on Sep 11 2025 09:50am

extra notes :

the +% fire/cold dmg also only applies to the first 2 charges of FoF and BoI

You should never use FoF, unless you are lvling on a poormans build. People who reroll a mosaic just cuz it didn't get 15% fire are either doing it cuz they love a perf roll, or they have no idea how bad FoF is.
And at some point, you should also even stop to use BoI, for the same reason that I briefly explained above, about why 20/10 griff is better than 20/15.
BoI is not only a single target dmg like the 1st charge of CoT, but it's smaller radial damage is only half CoT/PS, which can in the same way make you kill targets at the epicenter faster than those further around.
The moment you reach enough dmg from PS2+CoT3 to kill non-bosses with a single dtalon, you'll get better results if you stop charging BoI.

Lol wow. The trade forum peeps need to read this xD Mosaic claws are thought to be worth very little if not maxed +LD

Is COT of practical use since most TZs (dia/baal) only last a few minutes per run. I'm thinking of using just PS instead of the hassle of COT/BOI at the start of every game



Was also wondering if there was any use for Dtail vs Dtalon, for example if I prefer the quick animation of dtail?

Thanks for clarifying all this, just had to get my mosaic geared correctly before the reset

The real answer is not universal, it’s proper to each build.

The optimal number of dtalon kicks would be different based on your dmg and light pen. Once you have your full setup, you should test your dtalon flurry as it is with 1 hard point, against about any non-boss you can find.
If you find, for exemple, that your current 4 kicks are enough dmg to almost always kill with a single flurry, then it would be kinda dumb to push it to 5 or even 6 kicks.
Even if you do sometimes meet an ultra tanky unique that survive your 4 kicks, it’s not worth to try to always have the dmg to kill those tankier exceptions with a single dtalon.
Because for each extra unnecessary kick in all other situations, you just lost 3 frames.

I found my personal optimization at 4 kicks, with maximized AoE dmg from PS2 & CoT3 (-20% light griff) and minimized single target dmg (2x +8% light mosaics, +10% griff, no tiger strike, no BoI/FoF).
Very few targets require a 2nd dtalon.

My 4 kicks dtalon sequence last 16 frames.
If I was at 6 kicks to make sure I always 1-hit kill, it would be 22 frames.
2*16=32 so that’s 10 frames lost whenever I (rarely) don’t kill with 1 flurry.
So I lose way less time overall if I sometimes need 10 extra frames while saving 6 frames ~97% of the time in my case.

Just to put things in perspective about +light% dmg :
With the minimum of +26% light dmg, instead of up to +45% with perf items, I reduce the risk of letting mobs around my target survive by about the same differential (45-26=19% less likely).
Say I had 10% (random number to give an example) of mobs surviving when I was using 15% rolls on mosaics and griff… now that I switched to 8% mosaics and 10% griff, that 10% survival rate reduced by 19% means that 8.1% of mobs survive instead.
It’s a small detail, and it feels counterintuitive, but it works.
Now, that’s not a game changer either… but it should be enough to let anyone understand that if you pay more to get higher +light% dmg rolls on mosaics and griff, you’re in the end only paying more to make your build worse. I wouldn’t reroll until I get 8% either, unless I wanted to min/max to the full extent.
Imo the perfect mosaic roll would actually be 8%light but 15% fire/cold. Cuz for general pvm you’ll use only light dmg and want to minimize your single target dps differential, while if you do ubers and/or pvp (lol) then you’ll benefit from also charging up FoF/BoI and you don’t care about having a high epicenter dmg cuz the goal is killing your target, not everything further around it.

To answer your question about having a secondary quicker way to deliver fewer charges…
I’d recommend dClaw. Unless you have a slow off-hand and no way to make the double hit sequence fast enough to be worth using.
On my setup I get to dClaw at 10 frames, saving 6 frames per attack compared to my 4 kicks dtalon for whenever I farm squishy mobs or on lower player count.
But again, this is on my setup.
On a more standard setup chances are high that your dClaw frames are slow, and that using dTail is slower than just a regular attack…
So the best thing to do on most setups may just be to not even use an alternative quicker attack as it may not be much quicker and if it’s a single hit it may not be enough to kill anyway.

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I'd prolly just go PS/COT then as a one size fits all build. Was thinking DTail may be good for some areas esp with the +FD boost but then it requires TS charge up also which is counter productive for a PS/COT setup so I'd probably just save more time anyway if I go normal attack or d claw

+% Light damage doesn't add damage to CoT?

Only to the single target dmg of CoT charge 1

Not applied to CoT charge 2 & 3
Not applied to PS charge 2

This is what I explained here… that bonus single target dmg is only a nuisance, and it can only result in higher chances to kill the target used to deliver all the AoE charges faster than what you actually need to deliver enough aoe dmg to kill all those around.