Quote (Chainsaw47 @ Aug 8 2025 12:19am)

It’s an interesting discussion for sure. I think most people have an instinctive answer to that question, though it’s not something that can be proven or disproven scientifically, much like the existence of a god. I’m not personally religious so I can’t elaborate much on that. From a logical standpoint, yes nature is typically predictable, but I’m of the opinion that our will or our resolve transcends "nature". What I can do has physical and practical boundaries, much of which come from basic physics and my education. However, what I can think or wish isn’t bound by these limitations. I can’t fly on my own, but I can have the will to fly and I can visualize it with perfect accuracy. In that sense, I do think we have free will.

Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ Aug 8 2025 04:17am)

I laughed out loud.

You made a thread about something I studied for a decade and you want me to spoon feed you like a child.

Grow up you are the adult who will not look into the origins of “thinking”.

Like I said you are the worst type of atheist because you are lazy and it’s something Swami Vivekananda considered pathetic so no surprise I’m calling you on your baseless beliefs. You’ve shown nothing to prove “free will” does not exist. That says a lot.

I will not waste my time on jsp with someone who has no fucking clue what they are talking about. That’s you ^Saurod

You believe in the formed god. The patriarchal male god. The masculine “man in the sky god” so what you as a fake atheist are trying to prove does not exist. You just haven’t accepted the answer you seek cannot be known and if there was a way to know it you aren’t going about it the right way.


Billions of human being don’t believe in the “Abrahamic centric world view”. You proved your ignorance by not knowing the most basic distinction in critical thinking. The first layer of thought. You stopped there because your scared but keep going bud.

Quote (Saurod @ Aug 12 2025 03:36am)

I can totally differentiate between the necessary and certainty, but you cant obviously or would be able to see the contradiction here and why certainty is not compatible with god's omniscience.

For the bold part No, thats what I always said from the very start. I just made it clear for you guys and stated the obvious more precise here ALTHOUGH it was pretty obviously stated before as well.

Also no, self-awareness isnt the kind of knowledge we talk about here. You can keep dying on that hill, but this is not a discussion about being right, its about making sense.
When I ask for just one example for unaquired or caused knowledge and the answer is an example of self-awareness then I ask you how that is relevant for the discussion abouts god's knowledge a out human decisionmaking in any way? Its honestly hard to take people seriously when all they do is trying everything in your power to dodge the topic.
Self-Awareness is not even remotely related to god's knowledge of human actions.

Quote (Saurod @ Aug 12 2025 06:39am)

And why does your will transcend the laws of nature if we are nothing but nature? That would be the question here.

Quote (Chainsaw47 @ Aug 12 2025 01:55pm)

Because my will isn’t "nature", it’s not material. Though my brain is material and responsible for my thoughts, the thoughts themselves can take whatever form I please.

Quote (majorblood @ Aug 12 2025 01:29pm)

you clearly cannot differentiate it as I laid out the modal logic precisely and you just didn't understand or have any relevant reply to it. to say "no you" is not substantiated

no, you did not say that from the start and have been directly quoted over and over. i don't know why you are blatantly lying as it's on the page, you were constantly saying science is the only known method to reach truth and i pointed out many times how that is a contradiction yet you still didn't get it.

this is just another example of you lying to pretend you weren't wrong, it's weird behavior. It's ok to be wrong about something, but it's gross to lie

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=106586521&f=119&p=676172796 like right here is you saying "And no, we cannot find truth through means that are not scientific.". This is fundamentally incoherent if you understand what the implications of that sentence are





the request was "ONE example, just ONE logic example in which knowledge that is not aquired does not equal causation"

Did God acquire the knowledge that he exists?

Did God cause his existence?

the answer to both is no, which precisely fills your request.

Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ Aug 8 2025 03:49pm)

Right and that shows your ignorance.

You are clearly WHITE like me. You are Caucasian. You were born into a household that believed in the "formed image of God" not the "formless version".

This is why atheist are literal retards. An atheist is refuting the existence of a God that he/she claims "doesn't exist. By even entertaining the concept/idea you are giving way to the notion most humans believe in a "powerful magic man in the sky".

This is what ^Saurod believes. Unfortunately or fortunately for him the Buddhist and Hindus debated "free will" and the "existence of God" amongst a million other "conceptual philosophies" for a THOUSAND years before the Abrahmic folk started killing the "non-believers". You know those Muslims and Christians loved killing in the name of their god.

All I'm saying is this dude "ascribes to a different version of "god" then billions of others who don't worship an "image". That's why he's the fool. I was just like him with some agnostic atheistic tendencies but I then researched the root of atheism and all this shit and found the truth for myself. The real truth written down and spoken about for a thousand years.

Both of you stay ignorant. It's more enjoyable for me to see people talk in circles with no direction like Saurod. Speaking in platitudes.

I may say too much but that's because I have something to say and add to this conversation. Most of you don't sorry and should stick to the political threads which are sadly your expertise.

Quote (Saurod @ Aug 12 2025 05:04am)

Nothing I said in the bold statement contradicts my initial saying. Its just more precise. That is my honest opinion and I dont see where I am lying, which you just said I do.

And again, God's knowledge about his own existence isnt knowledge in the classical sense of the word.
Selfawareness doesnt qualify as "knowledge" in the classical sense since its an immediate state of consciousness and not about an external fact and therefore irrelevant to my point about Gods foreknowledge of human actions.
We both know that it is really not what I was talking about and it is also not relevant to the topic. We both know that. While I accept that I put a challenge out there and this answer filled my request, it didnt have any impact on my initial statement.

You know that.

Quote (majorblood @ Aug 12 2025 03:17pm)

the claim that knowledge must be about 'external facts' is an unsubstantiated assertion. Self-awareness is knowledge. knowledge is an awareness of facts, and one's own existence is a fact.


do you have a different question? how can God know something you will do without being the cause?

I addressed this precisely here: https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=106586521&f=119&p=676186131

your response was "You still act as if god was an outside spectator and not the creator of everything. Thats why you dont understand what I say. God isnt certain, he KNOWS. He knows it because he made it..... God has knowledge, he isnt just certain. He has knowledge because he is responsable for what will happen. Thats what I say. What he knows is a necessity. Its his will."

your claim that 'God's knowledge is necessity because he made it' is a unfounded assertion, not a logical proof. you are assuming your conclusion, which is circular reasoning while completely avoiding my precisely laid out logic that properly shows the logical distinction between necessity and certainty, showing that God's foreknowledge does not mean your actions are alethically necessary

Quote (Saurod @ Aug 12 2025 06:50am)

What do you mean you "explained a precisely laid out logic"? Its your opinion, not more and not less, its not precisely laid out logic at all.

Look at god's creation as if it was a book. Hes the author and its already written from page one to the last page. It was always written. We are characters in this written book. While we feel free during our decisionmaking as the story unfolds for us, the story is still already written.

What you say is that god knows whats in the book, but we write it.
But we dont, he wrote it - which is why he knows whats in it.

So that is my opinion. And now you tell me why your opinion is precise logic and mine is not.