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Jul 20 2025 03:36pm
^majorblood

How can I expect you to understand anything rooted in the East when your ethos is the West.

You made a presumption earlier that Christians were superior to Hindus and so naturally I had to educate you that all of what we know in terms of science/language/math/poetry/drama/religion etc. came from the FAR EAST and then as it went west the Abrahamic folk adopted these perceptions putting fanciful images and stories along the way.

The very question of free will being a contradiction because of the "ID/EGO".

If you know your God what does "free will" really mean?

It's only God acting. You are his instrument you aren't the puppeteer. You aren't the architect you are an iteration of the human blueprint a sponge for God to feel itself.

One single consciousness since the beginning characterized in Hinduism as the (OM) symbol which is god. The vibration on which all these "happenings" occur.

That big bang that Christians call Genesis and atheist call random equilibrium is actually not meant to be "measured" or "known" and any attempt to know the "working of the divine" is a "fools errand". It can't be known. So although we are all that original soul of souls. Light of Lights. Heart of hearts we go about our lives thinking "I AM doing good" or "I just did something bad" when YOU as an EGO/NAME don't exist. God alone exists. So do you get what I'm saying why there's no free will because God is the one and only absolute.

Here's a synopsis from Buddha..

this reply only further demonstrates your inability to address the core critique and the inherent contradictions within your own worldview.

instead of reconciling how 'no free will or self' can coexist with 'moral choices are up to you' or your being 'drawn towards free will and morality,' you resort to evading the issue. your accusations of my ignorance and your irrelevant historical claims are merely fallacies and deflections, not coherent philosophical arguments.

your inability to logically defend your position makes your arguments incoherent.
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Jul 21 2025 10:43am
Buddhism doesn't present a straightforward "yes" or "no" answer to the question of free will. Instead, it offers a nuanced perspective, suggesting that while we have a degree of agency, our choices are also conditioned by past actions (karma) and various external factors. This means we are neither fully free nor entirely predetermined.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
1. Limited Freedom:
Buddhism acknowledges that our actions are influenced by our past, our present circumstances, and our habitual tendencies.
We are not seen as having absolute, unconditioned free will.
However, we are not puppets of fate either. We have the capacity to make choices, reflect on our options, and potentially change our patterns.
2. The Role of Karma:
The concept of karma plays a crucial role. It suggests that our past actions create tendencies and predispositions that influence our present choices, but it doesn't dictate a fixed future.
The Eightfold Path, a core Buddhist practice, provides a framework for cultivating wholesome actions and breaking free from negative patterns.
3. Interdependent Origination (Pratītyasamutpāda):
This key Buddhist principle emphasizes that everything is interconnected and arises in dependence on other factors.
It suggests that our choices are not isolated events but are part of a vast web of interconnected causes and conditions.
4. Responsibility:
Despite the influence of past actions and external factors, Buddhists are still held accountable for their choices.
The emphasis on ethical conduct and the cultivation of wisdom is central to the Buddhist path.
5. The Middle Way:
Buddhism, in general, avoids extremes. It doesn't subscribe to either absolute free will or complete determinism.
Instead, it proposes a "middle way" that recognizes both the potential for choice and the influence of various conditions.
In essence, Buddhism's view on free will is that it's a complex interplay of freedom and conditioning. While we are not entirely free, we have the capacity to choose and act, and to work towards greater freedom through practice and understanding.




I gave you the "google version of Buddha's take on "free will" so you can stop poking holes at my genuine real opinion which comes from being raised Catholic and then after a near death experience studying all facets of Jesus LIFE and the cultures/religions/peoples that MADE him. Critical thinking is something Christians no offense aren't good at because they think they are the first "peoples" to do the whole "There's only one God and you can only get to him through me".

It's why I will shamelessly attack the papacy and the Bible for being more of a fear based teaching then the "infinite compassion" "Buddha and Christ" embodied in their LIFE.

Just like Jesus, Buddha had disciples and they wrote all this shit down. Do you really think they got "Jesus totally right" or "Buddha totally right" or did they merely use the language of that time to tell the same story.

Your inability to negate chronological time and pretend the world started turning in 33AD when Christ died is just hilarious to me. I don't know if Catholics are just willing to do more to know Christ and answer this question of free will.

It is so painful for you like it was for me to admit that everything mentioned in the "Bible/Quran/Torah" was said word for word in another language 1,000 years before Christ walked.

So can you answer that question loyal Christian? Where did Jesus a human being get his knowledge???? Do you honestly believe Jesus was the first being to say "I am God" or "I am one with the Father"????? Fucking Hindus said the same thing up until Buddhism became a school of thought.

That's what were talking about "schools of thought". If you want to believe the Bible was written by the physical manifestation of God by hand and the universe is 6,000 years old or whatever logical fallacy you want to take from your sacred book but know this that you are not arguing with me here..

Argue this with Buddha's or one of the other GENIUS Indians who made the Abrahamic texts look like they were written by a 12 year old.

Like I said and you erroneously have not addressed is the FACT Buddhism and Rishis addressed this question long before Jesus died on the cross for our sins.

This doesn't negate the life of Jesus Christ it actually makes it that much more important. He took great risk ultimately dying to spread what is eastern philosophy under the guise of what became the Abrahamic texts.

You keep saying this isn't real history but let's be real you didn't even know Buddha was one of the first person's to answer the question of "free will". Look at his answer to just the question of free will and then tell me if you really think Christian ideas came before Hindus.

Is 1000bce before 33ad????? That's an easy one if you believe in "chronological time" and "causation".

Edit: Hook, line and sinker is the Abrahamic texts force you to be subservient to a scripture and an "Invisible all powerful patriarchal god" and so our religions went and basically killed all indigenous cultures worldwide in the name of something that doesn't exist. The physical manifestation of God in Jesus Christ(real). The books they wrote to convince you he is the "end all be all". Total bullshit. Well written stories by learned scribes who manipulated the "word of God" since time immorium.

You do realize Sanskrit is the first original language and that everything you've ever read whether it be Latin/Aramaic/etc. has it's causal origin somewhere in India.

Now the Hindus say their ancient texts were given to them by the equivalent of aliens and when you read their Sanskrit from 1000 bce and they are talking about engineering flying crafts without jet propulsion and talking of literally gigantic space wars between "aliens" from different planets all wanting a piece of Earth.

I have not met one person who read what the Rishis had written down eons ago and it's more advanced then modern science today and said what you are saying.....

Free will because of Jesus Christ dying for our sins? You elaborate on the Christian way because you know it well. I'll give you Buddhism which predates Christianity so you can answer the "causation" thing yourself.

I respect you because I know you speak from the heart but remember the intense logic of Buddhism is not present in Abrahamic doctrine. Abrahamic doctrine is not a "full story". What the Hindus/Buddhist did is. They give you every argument for/against the existence of God/no god. etc. and they debated for a 1000 years on it and then your trying to tell me Jesus was the first?!?!

Don't believe in Jesus Christ. KNOW him. I don't know how these Abrahmic religions survived without anything more then the sword of "free will" while smashing every other "cultures" "free will" and replacing it with "Christian free will".

Don't debate me. Debate Buddha he's the one who brought up all the logical fallacies of Hinduism/Christianity which like I said are identical stories of human nature and the divine written in different ways.

Buddhism was at odds with HINDUISM UNTIL THE ABRAHAMIC went full retard saying they discovered sliced bread after the Indians built space ships.

This is supported by chronological history.

Confusing whose scripture is older with physical reality which is what Christians do but I don't see the argument.

Christianity is Egyptian through and through with a lot of the symbolism and root meaning and how people can't see that shows they actually think "Jesus was the first free thinker" or his ideas were NEW. They weren't.

I didn't think I had to dabble in Sanskrit either to prove it to myself but you have to go to before Christ lived and paint that picture to really think you are coming to know HIM. Don't know how reading the texts written after he lived do HIM anything more then push people away from "god" themselves for longer.

We all realize God in different ways through different means/methodologies.

What Vedanta and Vivekananda did was take the beautiful imagery of the Abrahamic texts and Hindu ones and then put it all through an intense logic/scientific methods. Methods that predate Christianity by thousands of years.

edit: But I'm the heathen and Satanist for looking deeper I suppose and gaining new meaning from Christ everyday. I enjoy hearing how people viewed "God/no god" "free will/ no free will" before the Abrahamic brought hell on Earth.

Heaven on Earth but the Abrahamic have to be right so we all got to die in a giant war and we all have to hate each other and worship the same "god" under names like "Yahweh" "Allah" "Jehovah". See how fucking retarded that is?

Jesus knew how retarded it all was too when he said, "Forgive them father for they know not what they do they are ignorant".

This post was edited by SwamiVivekananda on Jul 21 2025 10:45am
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Jul 21 2025 12:10pm
^majorblood

I gave you the "google version of Buddha's take on "free will" so you can stop poking holes at my genuine real opinion which comes from being raised Catholic and then after a near death experience studying all facets of Jesus LIFE and the cultures/religions/peoples that MADE him. Critical thinking is something Christians no offense aren't good at because they think they are the first "peoples" to do the whole "There's only one God and you can only get to him through me".

It's why I will shamelessly attack the papacy and the Bible for being more of a fear based teaching then the "infinite compassion" "Buddha and Christ" embodied in their LIFE.

Just like Jesus, Buddha had disciples and they wrote all this shit down. Do you really think they got "Jesus totally right" or "Buddha totally right" or did they merely use the language of that time to tell the same story.

Your inability to negate chronological time and pretend the world started turning in 33AD when Christ died is just hilarious to me. I don't know if Catholics are just willing to do more to know Christ and answer this question of free will.

It is so painful for you like it was for me to admit that everything mentioned in the "Bible/Quran/Torah" was said word for word in another language 1,000 years before Christ walked.

So can you answer that question loyal Christian? Where did Jesus a human being get his knowledge???? Do you honestly believe Jesus was the first being to say "I am God" or "I am one with the Father"????? Fucking Hindus said the same thing up until Buddhism became a school of thought.

That's what were talking about "schools of thought". If you want to believe the Bible was written by the physical manifestation of God by hand and the universe is 6,000 years old or whatever logical fallacy you want to take from your sacred book but know this that you are not arguing with me here..

Argue this with Buddha's or one of the other GENIUS Indians who made the Abrahamic texts look like they were written by a 12 year old.

Like I said and you erroneously have not addressed is the FACT Buddhism and Rishis addressed this question long before Jesus died on the cross for our sins.

This doesn't negate the life of Jesus Christ it actually makes it that much more important. He took great risk ultimately dying to spread what is eastern philosophy under the guise of what became the Abrahamic texts.

You keep saying this isn't real history but let's be real you didn't even know Buddha was one of the first person's to answer the question of "free will". Look at his answer to just the question of free will and then tell me if you really think Christian ideas came before Hindus.

Is 1000bce before 33ad????? That's an easy one if you believe in "chronological time" and "causation".

Edit: Hook, line and sinker is the Abrahamic texts force you to be subservient to a scripture and an "Invisible all powerful patriarchal god" and so our religions went and basically killed all indigenous cultures worldwide in the name of something that doesn't exist. The physical manifestation of God in Jesus Christ(real). The books they wrote to convince you he is the "end all be all". Total bullshit. Well written stories by learned scribes who manipulated the "word of God" since time immorium.

You do realize Sanskrit is the first original language and that everything you've ever read whether it be Latin/Aramaic/etc. has it's causal origin somewhere in India.

Now the Hindus say their ancient texts were given to them by the equivalent of aliens and when you read their Sanskrit from 1000 bce and they are talking about engineering flying crafts without jet propulsion and talking of literally gigantic space wars between "aliens" from different planets all wanting a piece of Earth.

I have not met one person who read what the Rishis had written down eons ago and it's more advanced then modern science today and said what you are saying.....

Free will because of Jesus Christ dying for our sins? You elaborate on the Christian way because you know it well. I'll give you Buddhism which predates Christianity so you can answer the "causation" thing yourself.

I respect you because I know you speak from the heart but remember the intense logic of Buddhism is not present in Abrahamic doctrine. Abrahamic doctrine is not a "full story". What the Hindus/Buddhist did is. They give you every argument for/against the existence of God/no god. etc. and they debated for a 1000 years on it and then your trying to tell me Jesus was the first?!?!

Don't believe in Jesus Christ. KNOW him. I don't know how these Abrahmic religions survived without anything more then the sword of "free will" while smashing every other "cultures" "free will" and replacing it with "Christian free will".

Don't debate me. Debate Buddha he's the one who brought up all the logical fallacies of Hinduism/Christianity which like I said are identical stories of human nature and the divine written in different ways.

Buddhism was at odds with HINDUISM UNTIL THE ABRAHAMIC went full retard saying they discovered sliced bread after the Indians built space ships.

This is supported by chronological history.

Confusing whose scripture is older with physical reality which is what Christians do but I don't see the argument.

Christianity is Egyptian through and through with a lot of the symbolism and root meaning and how people can't see that shows they actually think "Jesus was the first free thinker" or his ideas were NEW. They weren't.

I didn't think I had to dabble in Sanskrit either to prove it to myself but you have to go to before Christ lived and paint that picture to really think you are coming to know HIM. Don't know how reading the texts written after he lived do HIM anything more then push people away from "god" themselves for longer.

We all realize God in different ways through different means/methodologies.

What Vedanta and Vivekananda did was take the beautiful imagery of the Abrahamic texts and Hindu ones and then put it all through an intense logic/scientific methods. Methods that predate Christianity by thousands of years.

edit: But I'm the heathen and Satanist for looking deeper I suppose and gaining new meaning from Christ everyday. I enjoy hearing how people viewed "God/no god" "free will/ no free will" before the Abrahamic brought hell on Earth.

Heaven on Earth but the Abrahamic have to be right so we all got to die in a giant war and we all have to hate each other and worship the same "god" under names like "Yahweh" "Allah" "Jehovah". See how fucking retarded that is?

Jesus knew how retarded it all was too when he said, "Forgive them father for they know not what they do they are ignorant".


your inability to clearly express and defend your own philosophical position, without resorting to incoherent rants, irrelevant diversions, and personal attacks, shows that the logical incoherence lies within your own understanding. your 'gish gallop' of tangential points is an obvious attempt to evade facing the direct, simple logic that reveals the contradictions in your worldview, which you have yet to reconcile or clearly refute.

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Jul 21 2025 01:46pm
your inability to clearly express and defend your own philosophical position, without resorting to incoherent rants, irrelevant diversions, and personal attacks, shows that the logical incoherence lies within your own understanding. your 'gish gallop' of tangential points is an obvious attempt to evade facing the direct, simple logic that reveals the contradictions in your worldview, which you have yet to reconcile or clearly refute.


What a way to say absolutely fucking nothing. Good job!!! So intellectually honest and forthcoming of you.

Old man who only read the Bible is able to put a dude who never studied the roots of Atheism into his place only to be verbally tossed back to 3500bce when someone says the question of free will arose before Jesus rose from the dead.

Keep dodging me from now on not Saurod his comprehension of Buddhism was ZERO like yours.

Then you want to say a bunch of "gobbly gook" and refute NOTHING I said and basically say "It's all bullshit".

See how when a Christian has to face the causal reality of the development of the human mind into what it is now you'll do anything to pretend it wasn't until our Lord gave us "free will".

I'm pointing out the gaping holes in Abrahamic ideology because they are the ones that make our faith look like shit.

Can you rationally answer this question. Hinduism and Buddhism debate "free will" "god" for a thousand years.......Jesus Christ is crucified and dies for all of our sins because you know "Only through him can you get to the father".

Where on God's green Earth do you get the idea that the Abrahmic texts aren't just shitty watered down iterations of the ancient Sanskrit epics. Oh wait it's forbidden for you to research further into the past because.....

See how even as a Catholic it's hard to defend raw Abrahamic beliefs because the logical fallacies are endless???

Seriously answer one question I've asked.

The debate of "free will" "god" always brings out the ignorance in everyone because they ignore the whole of human history or as you put it. "India's a shithole that needed more Jesus". The world doesn't need Christianity it needs the blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Not all you Sunday Pew boys who can't pick up a book that has another language on it because "the devil made it".

Let's be honest bud. Jesus is here. Stop pretending it doesn't look good to hide behind platitudes like Saurod

hint hint Swami Vivekananda and Jesus gave people the FIERY truth. The fiery sermons that make your soul shake. Not this pussy footed scripture that turns everyone into a god fearing or godless idiot.

So free will? You feel it as I start to tear down some fallible tenets in your beliefs or is God guarding you from my "false words"???

This post was edited by SwamiVivekananda on Jul 21 2025 01:51pm
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Jul 21 2025 02:31pm
What a way to say absolutely fucking nothing. Good job!!! So intellectually honest and forthcoming of you.

Old man who only read the Bible is able to put a dude who never studied the roots of Atheism into his place only to be verbally tossed back to 3500bce when someone says the question of free will arose before Jesus rose from the dead.

Keep dodging me from now on not Saurod his comprehension of Buddhism was ZERO like yours.

Then you want to say a bunch of "gobbly gook" and refute NOTHING I said and basically say "It's all bullshit".

See how when a Christian has to face the causal reality of the development of the human mind into what it is now you'll do anything to pretend it wasn't until our Lord gave us "free will".

I'm pointing out the gaping holes in Abrahamic ideology because they are the ones that make our faith look like shit.

Can you rationally answer this question. Hinduism and Buddhism debate "free will" "god" for a thousand years.......Jesus Christ is crucified and dies for all of our sins because you know "Only through him can you get to the father".

Where on God's green Earth do you get the idea that the Abrahmic texts aren't just shitty watered down iterations of the ancient Sanskrit epics. Oh wait it's forbidden for you to research further into the past because.....

See how even as a Catholic it's hard to defend raw Abrahamic beliefs because the logical fallacies are endless???

Seriously answer one question I've asked.

The debate of "free will" "god" always brings out the ignorance in everyone because they ignore the whole of human history or as you put it. "India's a shithole that needed more Jesus". The world doesn't need Christianity it needs the blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Not all you Sunday Pew boys who can't pick up a book that has another language on it because "the devil made it".

Let's be honest bud. Jesus is here. Stop pretending it doesn't look good to hide behind platitudes like Saurod

hint hint Swami Vivekananda and Jesus gave people the FIERY truth. The fiery sermons that make your soul shake. Not this pussy footed scripture that turns everyone into a god fearing or godless idiot.

So free will? You feel it as I start to tear down some fallible tenets in your beliefs or is God guarding you from my "false words"???


another rant that only reinforces that you are incapable of addressing the core logical inconsistency within your own worldview.

my critique has been, and remains, simple: you deny the existence of free will and a self, yet simultaneously use language that assumes them, and you claim to be "drawn towards" concepts like free will and morality which you state don't exist by your own very worldview.

every irrelevant historical claim, personal anecdote, ad hominem attack, and accusation about my knowledge or beliefs is a pathetic attempt to evade this fundamental contradiction. you cannot coherently express your own position, and your inability to do so is laid bare by your constant need for diversion.
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Jul 21 2025 02:36pm
be funny? be in court for one of the lamer tickets. and judge say "how do you plead" and you say "i dunno what to do i dint have free will" be funny to see look on judges face. :)
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Jul 21 2025 02:42pm
another rant that only reinforces that you are incapable of addressing the core logical inconsistency within your own worldview.

my critique has been, and remains, simple: you deny the existence of free will and a self, yet simultaneously use language that assumes them, and you claim to be "drawn towards" concepts like free will and morality which you state don't exist by your own very worldview.

every irrelevant historical claim, personal anecdote, ad hominem attack, and accusation about my knowledge or beliefs is a pathetic attempt to evade this fundamental contradiction. you cannot coherently express your own position, and your inability to do so is laid bare by your constant need for diversion.


You sound like you should be giving a lecture at my Ashram on Christianity and like I said never once admitting the big holes in the Abrahamic faith so I'll continue to bash your ignorance into the ground gladly.

Free will does not exist but because I had a near death experience at 19 and "God gave me a 2nd chance" that changed my LIFE LONG answer to that question. Trust me if you almost died and went to St. Peter's Gate and heard the voice of God you wouldn't be calling me an idiot you'd be asking me what the Lord said.

That's your hubris and all that the Abrahamic folk like yourself are good for. When it comes to hard spiritual truths you can't stomach them because it shatters your entire world view.

The bombs that were dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were made by a guy who handed out copies of the Gita to everyone. A Nazi German scientist who was a part of Hitlers team to find the "Wunderwapon" and of course the Germans are the sole reason a lot of the Sanskrit got translated to English in the first place. When they went into India they knew they found it. How to build an atomic weapon and how to build a space ship written in Sanskrit.

If you studied human history objectively you'd have seen these things as they happened simultaneously.

But wait it was the Christians who created science, math, poetry, drama, language...right????? Get a grip bud.

REMEMBER Jesus Christ lived before the Pharaoh's of Egypt. Before the Zoroaster's. Before the Hindus. Before the Buddhist/Taoist/Sikhs/Confucius.

tell me did you even know that the Hindus and Buddhist debated this topic for a thousand years

Please tell me you don't think that Jesus's 13 missing years in the desert wasn't anything more then physically walking East until he tasted Buddhism. There are accounts of Jesus being in Tibet and India and they called him the "lamb" because he was the only "WHITE fair skin". Jesus realized he was God then and when he came back to the Middle East he had the knowledge of "Brahman" "God" and he knew in order to tell his people the truth he would be killed.

Not difficult to piece together what do you believe he did in those missing years or is that a lie? misinterpretation? metaphor?

This post was edited by SwamiVivekananda on Jul 21 2025 02:51pm
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Jul 21 2025 02:44pm
What a way to say absolutely fucking nothing. Good job!!! So intellectually honest and forthcoming of you.

Old man who only read the Bible is able to put a dude who never studied the roots of Atheism into his place only to be verbally tossed back to 3500bce when someone says the question of free will arose before Jesus rose from the dead.

Keep dodging me from now on not Saurod his comprehension of Buddhism was ZERO like yours.

Then you want to say a bunch of "gobbly gook" and refute NOTHING I said and basically say "It's all bullshit".

See how when a Christian has to face the causal reality of the development of the human mind into what it is now you'll do anything to pretend it wasn't until our Lord gave us "free will".

I'm pointing out the gaping holes in Abrahamic ideology because they are the ones that make our faith look like shit.

Can you rationally answer this question. Hinduism and Buddhism debate "free will" "god" for a thousand years.......Jesus Christ is crucified and dies for all of our sins because you know "Only through him can you get to the father".

Where on God's green Earth do you get the idea that the Abrahmic texts aren't just shitty watered down iterations of the ancient Sanskrit epics. Oh wait it's forbidden for you to research further into the past because.....

See how even as a Catholic it's hard to defend raw Abrahamic beliefs because the logical fallacies are endless???

Seriously answer one question I've asked.

The debate of "free will" "god" always brings out the ignorance in everyone because they ignore the whole of human history or as you put it. "India's a shithole that needed more Jesus". The world doesn't need Christianity it needs the blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Not all you Sunday Pew boys who can't pick up a book that has another language on it because "the devil made it".

Let's be honest bud. Jesus is here. Stop pretending it doesn't look good to hide behind platitudes like Saurod

hint hint Swami Vivekananda and Jesus gave people the FIERY truth. The fiery sermons that make your soul shake. Not this pussy footed scripture that turns everyone into a god fearing or godless idiot.

So free will? You feel it as I start to tear down some fallible tenets in your beliefs or is God guarding you from my "false words"???


In my reading of this conversation, it's not about the fact that other texts were written prior to the OT, it's a simple philosophical inquiry. How can morality exist if free will does not? Along with ensuring that an argument is logically accordant - otherwise it's just inane babble.

Simple thought exercise: free will exists, because I can choose to lift my arm at any moment of my own volition. The only possible argument against my free will here is that I was predestined to lift my arm at that moment due to antecedent conditions - which is the determinism or predestination argument. However, since determinism has already been fundamentally disproven, this argument is dead - leaving no further argument that can oppose free will. I'd like to hear any other succinct argument in opposition to free will.

This post was edited by El1te on Jul 21 2025 02:45pm
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Jul 21 2025 02:51pm
You sound like you should be giving a lecture at my Ashram on Christianity and like I said never once admitting the big holes in the Abrahamic faith so I'll continue to bash your ignorance into the ground gladly.

Free will does not exist but because I had a near death experience at 19 and "God gave me a 2nd chance" that changed my LIFE LONG answer to that question. Trust me if you almost died and went to St. Peter's Gate and heard the voice of God you wouldn't be calling me an idiot you'd be asking me what the Lord said.

That's your hubris and all that the Abrahamic folk like yourself are good for. When it comes to hard spiritual truths you can't stomach them because it shatters your entire world view.

The bombs that were dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were made by a guy who handed out copies of the Gita to everyone. A Nazi German scientist who was a part of Hitlers team to find the "Wunderwapon" and of course the Germans are the sole reason a lot of the Sanskrit got translated to English in the first place. When they went into India they knew they found it. How to build an atomic weapon and how to build a space ship written in Sanskrit.

If you studied human history objectively you'd have seen these things as they happened simultaneously.

But wait it was the Christians who created science, math, poetry, drama, language...right????? Get a grip bud.


you're still not engaging with my core critique: your worldview holds contradictory ideas about free will and the self, and your irrelevant rants are merely an evasion.

you say free will or the self doesn't exist, yet your language demands it exists and you have consistently said "it's up to you" and you are "drawn towards" free will and morality. none of this is coherent at all under your own metaphysics, this is the central issue.

anything else is irrelevant, incoherent babbling.

one paragraph you say free will doesn't exist, and within the same paragraph you use language that demands it does.

"That's your hubris and all that the Abrahamic folk like yourself are good for. "

this incoherent babble demands that free will exist and the self exists linguistically

This post was edited by majorblood on Jul 21 2025 02:53pm
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Jul 21 2025 02:58pm
In my reading of this conversation, it's not about the fact that other texts were written prior to the OT, it's a simple philosophical inquiry. How can morality exist if free will does not? Along with ensuring that an argument is logically accordant - otherwise it's just inane babble.

Simple thought exercise: free will exists, because I can choose to lift my arm at any moment of my own volition. The only possible argument against my free will here is that I was predestined to lift my arm at that moment due to antecedent conditions - which is the determinism or predestination argument. However, since determinism has already been fundamentally disproven, this argument is dead - leaving no further argument that can oppose free will. I'd like to hear any other succinct argument in opposition to free will.


you're still not engaging with my core critique: your worldview holds contradictory ideas about free will and the self, and your irrelevant rants are merely an evasion.

you say free will doesn't exist, yet your language demands it exists and you have consistently said "it's up to you" and you are "drawn towards" free will and morality. none of this is coherent at all under your own metaphysics, this is the central issue.

anything else is irrelevant, incoherent babbling.

one paragraph you say free will doesn't exist, and within the same paragraph you use language that demands it does.


Sharing the Hindus view and Vivekananda's since I shared Buddha's and you won't address either just make fun of me for trying to explain advanced philosophy in two sentences when a trillion texts were written that you are too lazy to have read.

As Hinduism is primarily a conglomerate of different religious traditions,[136] there is no one accepted view on the concept of free will. Within the predominant schools of Hindu philosophy there are two main opinions. The Advaita (monistic) schools generally believe in a fate-based approach, and the Dvaita (dualistic) schools are proponents for the theory of free will.[137] The different schools' understandings are based upon their conceptions of the nature of the supreme Being (see Brahman, Paramatma and Ishvara) and how the individual Self (atma or jiva) dictates, or is dictated by karma within the illusory existence of maya.

In both Dvaita and Advaita schools, and also in the many other traditions within Hinduism, there is a strong belief in destiny[138] and that both the past and future are known, or viewable, by certain saints or mystics as well as by the supreme being (Ishvara) in traditions where Ishvara is worshipped as an all-knowing being. In the Bhagavad Gita, the Avatar, Krishna says to Arjuna:

I know everything that has happened in the past, all that is happening in the present, and all things that are yet to come.[139]
However, this belief in destiny is not necessarily believed to rule out the existence of free will, as in some cases both free will and destiny are believed to exist simultaneously.[140][141]

The Bhagavad Gita also states:

Nor does the Supreme Lord assume anyone's sinful or pious activities (Bhagavad Gita 5.15)
From wherever the mind wanders due to its flickering and unsteady nature, one must certainly withdraw it and bring it back under the control of the self (Bhagavad Gita 6.26), indicating that God does not control anyone's will, and that it is possible to control the mind.
Different approaches
The six orthodox (astika) schools of thought in Hindu philosophy give differing opinions: In the Samkhya, for instance, matter is without any freedom, and Self lacks any ability to control the unfolding of matter. The only real freedom (kaivalya) consists in realizing the ultimate separateness of matter and self. For the Yoga school, only Ishvara is truly free, and its freedom is also distinct from all feelings, thoughts, actions, or wills, and is thus not at all a freedom of will. The metaphysics of the Nyaya and Vaisheshika schools strongly suggest a belief in determinism, but do not seem to make explicit claims about determinism or free will.[142]

A quotation from Swami Vivekananda, a Vedantist, offers an example of the worry about free will in the Hindu tradition.

Therefore, we see at once that there cannot be any such thing as free-will; the very words are a contradiction, because will is what we know, and everything that we know is within our universe, and everything within our universe is moulded by conditions of time, space and causality. ... To acquire freedom we have to get beyond the limitations of this universe; it cannot be found here.[143]


On the other hand, Mimamsa, Vedanta, and the more theistic versions of Hinduism such as Shaivism and Vaishnavism have often emphasized the importance of free will. For example, in the Bhagavad Gita the living beings (jivas) are described as being of a higher nature who have the freedom to exploit the inferior material nature (prakrti):

Besides these, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior energy of Mine, which comprises the living entities who are exploiting the resources of this material, inferior nature.[144]

Within Vedanta, Madhvacharya argues that souls do not have any free will as Lord Vishnu prescribes all their actions.[145]

The doctrine of Karma in Hinduism requires both that we pay for our actions in the past, and that our actions in the present be free enough to allow us to deserve the future reward or punishment that we will receive for our present actions. The Advaitin philosopher Chandrashekhara Bharati Swaminah puts it this way:

Fate is past karma, free-will is present karma. Both are really one, that is, karma, though they may differ in the matter of time. There can be no conflict when they are really one. Fate, as I told you, is the resultant of the past exercise of your free-will. By exercising your free-will in the past, you brought on the resultant fate. By exercising your free-will in the present, I want you to wipe out your past record if it hurts you, or to add to it if you find it enjoyable. In any case, whether for acquiring more happiness or for reducing misery, you have to exercise your free-will in the present.[146]

This post was edited by SwamiVivekananda on Jul 21 2025 03:02pm
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