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Jul 6 2025 04:54am
Jesus gave me free will :angel:
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Jul 6 2025 11:38am
Well how DOES a person have the ability to do so? Tell me your view and I'll tell you why it doesnt work in my opinion.

I agree that it certainly feels like it, which is probably good enough to be real from a humans perspective. I dont feel like a puppet on a string either. I think our free will is as real as the Matrix from the movie is a real world. Its good enough to feel real, right? So who cares...you can certainly see it like that and I wont blame you.


Do you argue that it is all deterministic and that our choices are predetermined?

Or do you argue that we don't have the ability to choose freely?
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Jul 6 2025 12:21pm
Change my mind is a funny phrase to say without free will, I admit that*lol

So, before I will challenge you to discuss this with me, let me say that it doesnt matter if you are religious or not. REAL free will in the sense of the word or in the sense of the meaning we give the phrase doesnt exist from both perspectives in my opinion.


If free will didn’t exist, I wouldn’t be able to choose to disagree with you right now.
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Jul 6 2025 12:38pm
Yep, that makes sense. Since God already knows what will happen the future is already decided. We may think we're making a decision but that decision has already been made.

I can take comfort in the original point where I said "God acts in the here and now from our perspective". Maybe the future is already decided and it's set in stone. We may have the illusion of free will from our perspective.

I for one cannot imagine the concept of knowing what somebody terrible is going to do 10 Years from now and act as though they have already done the deed.

My question though, did God will for us to go left instead of right or did we make that decision ourselves? From our perspective we arrive at that junction and need to make a choice. There are a lot of factors that will weigh in on our final decision but in the end, from our perspective, the choice was made by us.


Yes all choices we make are - from out perspective - made by us.
But in "reality" its God's decision. All decision are God's decision.

This post was edited by Saurod on Jul 6 2025 12:41pm
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Jul 6 2025 12:41pm
Yes all choices we make are - from out perspective - made by us.
But its God's decision.


what if your god decided you got your own free will?

This post was edited by BaHgerAUT on Jul 6 2025 12:41pm
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Jul 6 2025 12:43pm
Do you argue that it is all deterministic and that our choices are predetermined?

Or do you argue that we don't have the ability to choose freely?


Both.
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Jul 6 2025 12:44pm
If free will didn’t exist, I wouldn’t be able to choose to disagree with you right now.


You cant choose anything, just feels like it.
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Jul 6 2025 12:44pm
what if your god decided you got your own free will?


He cant.
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Jul 6 2025 01:06pm
Both.


The fact that we can't predict it creates free will imo.

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle in quantum mechanics puts it into a natural law.
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Jul 6 2025 02:31pm
The fact that we can't predict it creates free will imo.

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle in quantum mechanics puts it into a natural law.


The reason why we cant predict it has nothing to do with quantum mechanics. The reason is that we arent technically capable to calculate it.

Actually most scientists share the opinion that quantum mechanics play a very, very insignificant role compared to the classical physical processes meaning that the effects are many order too small to have any influencial impact on brain activities or other classical physical processes. At the macroscopic scale of these processes quantum fluctuations just average out. This is due to decoherence.

And even if quantum mechanics would influence brain activities in any significant way, this would still just add a random layer. It could be an argument against natural determinism, yes - but it would just add randomness on top of deterministic values. So nothing that wpuld lead to any form of free will.

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