d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > I Wrote A Short Story And Hope You Like It
Prev1234567Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 9,004
Joined: Mar 15 2008
Gold: 2,150.00
May 9 2025 11:12am
The short story is not an argument for anything.

Has nothing to do with discussions in this thread tho.


Your trying to convince others you are making no argument by saying it yourself. You posted it to change minds/provoke thought.

Typical left strategy, do one thing, say it's another. Are you a lefty?

Member
Posts: 7,251
Joined: Oct 9 2021
Gold: 4,661.71
May 9 2025 11:21am
Your trying to convince others you are making no argument by saying it yourself. You posted it to change minds/provoke thought.

Typical left strategy, do one thing, say it's another. Are you a lefty?


Totally not, dude. I am definitely leaning towards the right.

I didnt post my story to change minds, I totally realize that my story iant nearly strong enough to do that. Its just scratching the surface if anything.

Provoke thoughts, yes. Of course. But still, there is no argument involved. Since I didnt really change the story of the bible, theres nothing a serious believer will ever take away from it, since its all commkn knowledge and nothing new. Its a story written for 5th graders specifically.

The reason I posted it, is because I was proud of it, aince its th3 first time I ever wrote something. I realize, as I mentioned in a previous reply already, thats its not very deep or witty.
Member
Posts: 46,827
Joined: Sep 5 2016
Gold: 100.00
May 9 2025 01:13pm
I didnt say they were criminals, I said they didnt do what the inventor wanted.


ya but i asked "what do you think should happen to criminals?"
Member
Posts: 7,251
Joined: Oct 9 2021
Gold: 4,661.71
May 13 2025 05:14am
ya but i asked "what do you think should happen to criminals?"


Depends on what individuals certain societies mark as criminals and what my role in this concept would be. In russia you are a criminal if you oppose Putin. In America Snowden is a criminal for exposing corrupt institutions.

So what is a criminal even. Its just a word.
Member
Posts: 7,251
Joined: Oct 9 2021
Gold: 4,661.71
May 15 2025 06:36am
you're still assuming the conclusion that complex brain function "just is" agency without explaining how true agency arises from pure physical processes (which you have admitted are random fundamentally) using your naturalistic worldview. this is ad hoc.

if consciousness and decision-making are merely the result of physical processes then they aren't free in any meaningful sense. there’s no space for a true agent to make real choices. when you say 'you can make decisions,' in your framework, all you’re describing is a brain responding to physical stimuli, not an independent agent exercising agency.

the important part you need to address is how free will can exist within a naturalistic worldview. if everything is random events, the consciousness itself would fundamentally be cause and effect of random events and there would never actually be true choice or agency.


Oh I didnt even see that reply.

Well there is no real self in the way you wanna imply it. Our self is a very useful illusion of the brain if you will, a necessary tool to make decisions. The Self dies with the machine so to say. Consciousness is an example of emergence.
Individual neurons in the brain aren't conscious on their own. But when billions of them interact in a highly organized way, something entirely new appears — the experience of being conscious. That consciousness is an emergent property of the neural system.

I can see why you'd doubt it from your point of view, but we all, including me and you, just arent all-knowing and therefor have to accept certain knowledge barriers.

The thing that is clear however is that the concept of god, at least that of the christian god, doesnt hold up.

All happens according to gods will, which is very obvious and selfexplanatory because god cannot be surprised or tricked because he is all-knowing, all-powerful and also acts outside of any time frames because he created everything including time itself. This means every commited sin by any human ever, now or in the future, happens because its god's will. Everything happens as he intended, which ridicules the whole message and the whole concept of the bible.

Its incredibly cheap to claim that god gave humans free will to decide for themselves how they would behave if everything can only happen the way he wants it to happen - which is irrefutable.
A moral compass given to us by god is also completely ridiculous because millions of people ignore that compass every single day (by gods will by the way, he knows it happens and he also wants it to happen). If millions ignore god's moral compass day by day then god's moral compass would be highly dysfunctional.

An all-powerful being that implants a moral compass must be judged by the outcome.

You can twist and turn it all upside down and sideways, but the biblical christian god will always end up being completely nonsensical, no matter how you wanna argue.
Member
Posts: 46,827
Joined: Sep 5 2016
Gold: 100.00
May 15 2025 07:07am

Depends on what individuals certain societies mark as criminals and what my role in this concept would be. In russia you are a criminal if you oppose Putin. In America Snowden is a criminal for exposing corrupt institutions.

So what is a criminal even. Its just a word.


usually everyone understands what a criminal is? except you? the lengths you go to to "win a argument" makes you look kooky.
a criminal universally understood is some one that steals and harms people.
to say "its just a word" like thats some kind of argument makes you sound unreasonable.

Avoid worthless, foolish talk that only leads to more godless behavior. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. But avoid irreverent, empty speech, for this will produce an even greater measure of godlessness. However, avoid pointless discussions.
Member
Posts: 17,030
Joined: Jan 29 2007
Gold: 6,119.67
May 15 2025 07:17am
Morals come from Wisdom not from your IQ.. Most never become wise ..I can hope there is a God. I see some good people that say God first and they do not judge others.. For that is their God's job... But that is the rare instance ..Most that say religion stuff want to be the judge of others.. Control what others do or think..They care about the unborn . but after birth they don't give a sht about feeding them..
Member
Posts: 54,735
Joined: Jun 5 2006
Gold: 7.83
May 15 2025 07:20am
Oh I didnt even see that reply.

Well there is no real self in the way you wanna imply it. Our self is a very useful illusion of the brain if you will, a necessary tool to make decisions. The Self dies with the machine so to say. Consciousness is an example of emergence.
Individual neurons in the brain aren't conscious on their own. But when billions of them interact in a highly organized way, something entirely new appears — the experience of being conscious. That consciousness is an emergent property of the neural system.

I can see why you'd doubt it from your point of view, but we all, including me and you, just arent all-knowing and therefor have to accept certain knowledge barriers.

The thing that is clear however is that the concept of god, at least that of the christian god, doesnt hold up.

All happens according to gods will, which is very obvious and selfexplanatory because god cannot be surprised or tricked because he is all-knowing, all-powerful and also acts outside of any time frames because he created everything including time itself. This means every commited sin by any human ever, now or in the future, happens because its god's will. Everything happens as he intended, which ridicules the whole message and the whole concept of the bible.

Its incredibly cheap to claim that god gave humans free will to decide for themselves how they would behave if everything can only happen the way he wants it to happen - which is irrefutable.
A moral compass given to us by god is also completely ridiculous because millions of people ignore that compass every single day (by gods will by the way, he knows it happens and he also wants it to happen). If millions ignore god's moral compass day by day then god's moral compass would be highly dysfunctional.

An all-powerful being that implants a moral compass must be judged by the outcome.

You can twist and turn it all upside down and sideways, but the biblical christian god will always end up being completely nonsensical, no matter how you wanna argue.

you still haven’t explained how free will is possible in your worldview. if everything is either determined by physical laws or influenced by random quantum events, there’s no room for actual agency. saying consciousness “emerges” doesn’t solve this as it just describes complexity, not freedom.

you even admitted the self is an illusion under your worldview, but illusions don’t choose. if there's no real "you," then no one is making any actual decisions and it's all input/output of a complex physics equation.

you’ve shifted to criticizing theism, but that doesn’t justify free will in your own framework.
how can there be free will in a universe where everything is either determined or random, and there is no real agent?


so far it just seems like you admit there is no free will, the "self" or decision-maker is an illusion, and everything is ultimately random quantum mechanic processes. you never actually have made a true decision in your life and everything is an outcome of cause and effect at the fundamental level of the randomness of quantum mechanics.


if you're just admitting here there is no self and no free will in your worldview I can address your points about theism.
Member
Posts: 54,735
Joined: Jun 5 2006
Gold: 7.83
May 15 2025 07:24am
Morals come from Wisdom not from your IQ.. Most never become wise ..I can hope there is a God. I see some good people that say God first and they do not judge others.. For that is their God's job... But that is the rare instance ..Most that say religion stuff want to be the judge of others.. Control what others do or think..They care about the unborn . but after birth they don't give a sht about feeding them..


how is wisdom objective morality?

unless you mean Wisdom as the Logos.
Member
Posts: 17,030
Joined: Jan 29 2007
Gold: 6,119.67
May 15 2025 07:53am
how is wisdom objective morality?

unless you mean Wisdom as the Logos.


it is the rejection of "objective moralities" .. Learning them rather then being born with them..
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1234567Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll