i think a lot of people are getting their wires cross when it comes to "due process".

some people, allegedly, have been rounded up or detained through incidental contact with ice. then they're given a chance to prove they're here legally, and if they can't, they're deported. in some cases to 3rd party nations (not the USA, not their birth country). That is a serious due process issue, no court case just a boot.

this case in question isn't nearly as much of a due process issue. this man had his days in court, multiple. and was ruled to be a member of ms13 by judges and was never contested. he was not deported because at the time El Salvidor was largely under the control of a rival gang. that gang has now largely been run underground, or imprisoned, by the new regime. as well as ms13 being imprisoned or run out of the country. so there's no reason an ms13 member can't be deported and handed over to a regime that's punishing ms13 members and barios 18 members.

he's not being deported for domestic abuse, he's being deported for being a member of ms13. the domestic abuse is just PR for the whitehouse to counter him being a "Maryland Father" and all around nice guy, like the media reported.

There is zero proof he is in ms13

booh - who cares about facts these days

It's all about belief m8.
And yes, we believe Agent Orange is Jesus! Not an atrocity that totally screws Muricans. No sir!

Zero proof? that's an opinion.

Zero evidence? that's incorrect. there's the fact that he was apprehended with known ms13 members years ago, with cash and drugs on his person. there's sworn testimony that he is in ms13. and there's a hand tattoo which is emblematic of ms13. there are 2 separate judges who accepted this evidence, and deemed he was a member of ms13.

what level of evidence for you amounts to proof?

Was he? The statement I read was that he had neither of those things, the people he was with had some marijuana. Can you provide a source?

The second point is at least willfully misleading, the second judge just didn't overturn the first judges decission because it was not "clearly wrong" - that is not the same as accepting the evidence and declaring him as MS13 member.

Lastly just to reiterate, for all we know he might very well be MS13 - you still need to follow due process, and if it was only a 5 minute hearing to remove his protected status it is even worse to not do it.

i dont disagree that his lack of 4a in this case was problematic. i just dont think this nonsense saying there's ZERO evidence is at all helpful. its misleading. if he was given a case he likely would have been deported anyways, that doesnt excuse his lack of due process, its just context.

like lets not take "judge refused to revisit his gang status" lightly. judges review evidence from previous cases, its not a simple hand waving. see below, the judge again allowed garcia to present evidence he wasnt in ms13, and reviews the testimony that he was implicated under. garcia presented character witnesses, and a lack of criminal record. and was shot down because this isnt strong evidence. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.11.2_3.pdf

in any case his alleged gang member status played into his lack of deportation order, the context for that order is no null and void. Barrios 18 ran amok in El Salvidor at the time of the stay of deportation, they have presence but no longer run the country. if it was unsafe to deport him for fear of targeting, whether he's in a gang or not, he can now be deported because they dont run the streets anymore. once he leaves a plane in el salvidor and is on their soil its not the business of the USA to dictate where he goes. whether its in a gang prison, sent to his family, or shot on the spot. we put him on a plane if he can be deported then wash out hands. if he was no from el salvidor then thats a problem, i detest 3rd nation deportations and consider them a violation of cruel and unusual punishment.

Source: https://www.justice.gov/ag/media/1396906/dl?inline

at the time of contact group members caught stashing pot under a car, Kilmar had 1,178$ cash on him. this isnt a crime (the cash) nor is he directly implicated in the pot in the report's narrative section. he's just there with 3 confirmed ms13 members hanging out in a known ms13 symbol shirt and had, with an alleged ms13 tattoo on his hands, from the country ms13 originated in, and has been targetted by ms13's rival gang. oh and was confirmed by a gang informant to be in ms13. zero evidence tho..... /s

This post was edited by thesnipa on Apr 25 2025 06:58am

I read the source three times now and to me it sounds very clearly that there was 1 confirmed gang member, 1 very very likely gang member, 1 whos only affiliation to ms13 was hanging out with the others and garcia somewhere in between. How do you get to 3 confirmed gang members and him?

Also can you point me to where it says he had 1.178$ on hand? I am sure it's in the doc I just couldn't locate it

One last time: you can and should deport people that are in your country illegally. While I have empathy for people seeking a better life, the solution has to be to make life liveable everywhere, not move everybody to western countries.

I am just interested in the facts in this case because
1) you could not deport him legally to El Salvador and still did, this is bad
2) both sides seem to want to paint him as an extreme that is probably not true. We all should want truth to be a core part of political discussion
3) as a side note: deporting people to a sketchy prison is not great and has to have a much higher bar than "is illegal in our country", but deporting every illegal back to where they belong is a sound political goal

This post was edited by SkySwallower on Apr 25 2025 08:12am

Tired of hearing about this wife beating Salvadoran. Can we focus on actual US citizens yet? Canada, Mexico, El Salvador, Venezuela… the entire EI, China… Russia… they can all kick rocks.

USA!

This post was edited by MadMan87 on Apr 25 2025 08:06am

you're correct i misread the notorious person as 2 people. the 4th person was let go on the scene and not booked.

Garcia's cash he was apprehended with is on the page of the report after the one with his photo under "funds in possession".

his defense argued, without success, that the gang affiliation confidential informant program was hearsay. identity protection informant programs are admissible evidence, are not hearsay, and the judge can (and both judges did) review the testimony in sealed fashion. were it a different trial with a jury the testimony would be admitted, and then read verbatim to a jury as evidence.

incorrect but okay.