d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Weak President Trump Can't Get Prisoner
Prev15678922Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 39,003
Joined: Jan 11 2006
Gold: 5,009.35
Apr 14 2025 11:08pm
1. He's not a citizen of the USA, he's a citizen of El Salvador.
2. Trump the troll strikes again. Illegally deporting a guy who is in the USA Illegally.

I dont 100% agree with what trump and company did here, but if the guy really is an ms13 member then I see no problem. Trump administration did this to make an example, just like the tesla guys getting 20 years for the dealership. It's brutal but people will think twice before coming in illegally and/or lighting cars on fire.
Member
Posts: 50,697
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 4,861.00
Apr 15 2025 02:59am
Just unpack the contradictions and illogic of the whole story.

The immigration judge accepts the identification of him as an MS13 member and gives it as basis to deny him asylum claim and he would be subject to deportation, except he forbids his deportation to his home country on the basis that he'd face rival gang violence, and won't order a deportation to a third country. Creating the legal limbo of having someone identified as both an illegal alien and a gang member who is allowed to stay in the country. And just like he illegally entered the country (intentionally), he was illegally deported from the country (by mistake). A court orders the president to effectuate his return even though this is a clear violation of constitutional separation of powers, as the judiciary has no jurisdiction over international affairs and foreign policy. The supreme court affirms this distinction, but the liberal media freaks out and claims its a constitutional crisis that Trump is ignoring a supreme court order. Except that Trump is actually abiding by the supreme court order and the lower immigration judge was doing the whole constitutional crisis thing.

And here we get to the more meaty stuff. The gang violence excuse was given in 2019. Which is also when Bukele was elected, and began his territorial control plan. The homicide rate in El Salvador dropped from 83/53/38 in 2017/18/19, down to 21.2/18.1/7.8/2.4/1.9 in 2020,21,22,23,24. With only 114 total homicides in the whole country last year. And indeed this is now 1/3 of the homicide rate in the USA. El Salvador is now a much safer country than the US instead of a total violent shithole, and the official USA travel advisory now bumps it to a higher tier than France and Sweden.
This also means that the gang violence premise for barring the guy's deportation is defunct. Of course, the court itself hasn't ruled on that, because it would much rather leave him in permanent limbo than do its job. But it creates the opposite, ridiculous argument where the claim for asylum becomes fear of persecution from his government, because he'd be locked up as an MS13 member, like exactly what happened. Which is exactly how El Salvador became safe and why they won't release him. And to deny it on that grounds would be to again hijack our foreign policy by condemning and rejecting the sovereign El Salvadoran justice system and saying we do not accept their determinations, which of course is not the jurisdiction of courts. And yet a judge tried to do just that, ordering him released.
Member
Posts: 46,832
Joined: Sep 5 2016
Gold: 100.00
Apr 15 2025 05:20am
Just unpack the contradictions and illogic of the whole story.

The immigration judge accepts the identification of him as an MS13 member and gives it as basis to deny him asylum claim and he would be subject to deportation, except he forbids his deportation to his home country on the basis that he'd face rival gang violence, and won't order a deportation to a third country. Creating the legal limbo of having someone identified as both an illegal alien and a gang member who is allowed to stay in the country. And just like he illegally entered the country (intentionally), he was illegally deported from the country (by mistake). A court orders the president to effectuate his return even though this is a clear violation of constitutional separation of powers, as the judiciary has no jurisdiction over international affairs and foreign policy. The supreme court affirms this distinction, but the liberal media freaks out and claims its a constitutional crisis that Trump is ignoring a supreme court order. Except that Trump is actually abiding by the supreme court order and the lower immigration judge was doing the whole constitutional crisis thing.

And here we get to the more meaty stuff. The gang violence excuse was given in 2019. Which is also when Bukele was elected, and began his territorial control plan. The homicide rate in El Salvador dropped from 83/53/38 in 2017/18/19, down to 21.2/18.1/7.8/2.4/1.9 in 2020,21,22,23,24. With only 114 total homicides in the whole country last year. And indeed this is now 1/3 of the homicide rate in the USA. El Salvador is now a much safer country than the US instead of a total violent shithole, and the official USA travel advisory now bumps it to a higher tier than France and Sweden.
This also means that the gang violence premise for barring the guy's deportation is defunct. Of course, the court itself hasn't ruled on that, because it would much rather leave him in permanent limbo than do its job. But it creates the opposite, ridiculous argument where the claim for asylum becomes fear of persecution from his government, because he'd be locked up as an MS13 member, like exactly what happened. Which is exactly how El Salvador became safe and why they won't release him. And to deny it on that grounds would be to again hijack our foreign policy by condemning and rejecting the sovereign El Salvadoran justice system and saying we do not accept their determinations, which of course is not the jurisdiction of courts. And yet a judge tried to do just that, ordering him released.


i see what your saying. the courts confirmed him as a gang member and a illegal gang member was deported. but that seems its just trump world. watch the lefties defend illegal gang members.

what i seem to be missing though, when did it happen that every judge in the land all of a sudden have authority over the president?


Member
Posts: 8,944
Joined: Jun 19 2006
Gold: 687.30
Apr 15 2025 05:40am
Just unpack the contradictions and illogic of the whole story.

The immigration judge accepts the identification of him as an MS13 member and gives it as basis to deny him asylum claim and he would be subject to deportation, except he forbids his deportation to his home country on the basis that he'd face rival gang violence, and won't order a deportation to a third country. Creating the legal limbo of having someone identified as both an illegal alien and a gang member who is allowed to stay in the country. And just like he illegally entered the country (intentionally), he was illegally deported from the country (by mistake). A court orders the president to effectuate his return even though this is a clear violation of constitutional separation of powers, as the judiciary has no jurisdiction over international affairs and foreign policy. The supreme court affirms this distinction, but the liberal media freaks out and claims its a constitutional crisis that Trump is ignoring a supreme court order. Except that Trump is actually abiding by the supreme court order and the lower immigration judge was doing the whole constitutional crisis thing.

And here we get to the more meaty stuff. The gang violence excuse was given in 2019. Which is also when Bukele was elected, and began his territorial control plan. The homicide rate in El Salvador dropped from 83/53/38 in 2017/18/19, down to 21.2/18.1/7.8/2.4/1.9 in 2020,21,22,23,24. With only 114 total homicides in the whole country last year. And indeed this is now 1/3 of the homicide rate in the USA. El Salvador is now a much safer country than the US instead of a total violent shithole, and the official USA travel advisory now bumps it to a higher tier than France and Sweden.
This also means that the gang violence premise for barring the guy's deportation is defunct. Of course, the court itself hasn't ruled on that, because it would much rather leave him in permanent limbo than do its job. But it creates the opposite, ridiculous argument where the claim for asylum becomes fear of persecution from his government, because he'd be locked up as an MS13 member, like exactly what happened. Which is exactly how El Salvador became safe and why they won't release him. And to deny it on that grounds would be to again hijack our foreign policy by condemning and rejecting the sovereign El Salvadoran justice system and saying we do not accept their determinations, which of course is not the jurisdiction of courts. And yet a judge tried to do just that, ordering him released.


I mean most of this is either completely wrong or willfully misleading, so I will gladly reiterate the facts (citations freely available at wiki):

- guy was 16 when he illegaly came to the US
- a single informant claimed he was in a gang at a place where he didn't even live, which one judge believed and another one accepted as not "clearly wrong"
- there is no other evidence linking him to gangs, no crimes charged
- he got his status to not be deported to El Salvador because it was too late for him to apply for asylum
- he could not be legally deported to El Salvador and still was

Which brings us to what happens now. He is not comming back, probably because he is long dead. He was not allowed to be deported, due process was not followed - everybody can be deported if you stop following due process. You are an US citizen? Well, would be nice if that status protected you from being deported, which it does if and only if due process is followed. You should be outraged about such a "blunder" and march for your government to make sure it never happens again.

As a side not: it is immaterial for the case if in the end the guy was a violent gang member, a loving father to three special needs children or both or neither of those things. Everybody should see the law as the highest good in the US, if you don't you could leave to a country that has "whatever our leader wants" as the highest good instead - I heard Russia is nice.

PS: Trump is already "joking" about sending US citizens to El Salvador.
Member
Posts: 9,098
Joined: May 11 2009
Gold: 5.01
Apr 15 2025 05:41am
Another circular Sky thread of denial
Member
Posts: 8,944
Joined: Jun 19 2006
Gold: 687.30
Apr 15 2025 05:44am
Another circular Sky thread of denial


This you?


Member
Posts: 19,152
Joined: Nov 12 2005
Gold: 30.70
Apr 15 2025 05:50am
Another circular Sky thread of denial


Yep..

i see what your saying. the courts confirmed him as a gang member and a illegal gang member was deported. but that seems its just trump world. watch the lefties defend illegal gang members.

what i seem to be missing though, when did it happen that every judge in the land all of a sudden have authority over the president?


Never, and should never be the case.

Especially when we still have some very far left judges out there.
Member
Posts: 9,098
Joined: May 11 2009
Gold: 5.01
Apr 15 2025 06:00am
Yep..



Never, and should never be the case.

Especially when we still have some very far left judges out there.


It's okay, he is still a student learning things. Takes some a loooong time
Member
Posts: 8,944
Joined: Jun 19 2006
Gold: 687.30
Apr 15 2025 06:03am
It's okay, he is still a student learning things. Takes some a loooong time


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers#Checks_and_balances I thought you learned this in like .. 6th grade? I assume you at least went that far in school, so why don't you understand the concept and how it applies here?
Member
Posts: 9,098
Joined: May 11 2009
Gold: 5.01
Apr 15 2025 06:04am
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers#Checks_and_balances I thought you learned this in like .. 6th grade? I assume you at least went that far in school, so why don't you understand the concept and how it applies here?


Goom already gave us the spark notes son. I don't have anything further to add other than than let's not circle

This post was edited by RedFromWinter on Apr 15 2025 06:05am
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev15678922Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll