If your napkin math gives infinite tax revenue given infinite tariffs it becomes more clear why you think they are a good idea. But as said before, I really do not want to explain numbers to you guys. Let's say that basically all economists agree that tariffs in the form implemented by Trump are a terrible idea and leave it at that, you guys clearly now better.

The reason im giving you pushback is because you're a liar. no one said infinity, he used an actual % number, the % number which is the current tariff rate. it was the opposite of infinite, it was finite. it was inaccurate, because of elastic demand, but that actually a problem for you for 2 reasons.

1. he said napkin math, meaning he already knows that.

2. the point of trump tariffs is to force elastic demand and cause less chinese imports.

for reference im not pro tariff in general, im not pro trump tariffs currently, and im an engineer not an economist. i just wont let people slide with lazy strawman posts while also appealing to their authority and being wrong at the same time. you're now engaging in historical revision when the posts in question are 1 page back, all while claiming you're above it all instead of engaging on posts we both know aren't accurate lol. you're fooling no one and are just embarrassing yourself, which frankly is pretty hard to do in a subforum that's basically a joke itself.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Apr 10 2025 01:05pm

Yeah, those instant out of business stories must have been ones just on the edge and failing anyways. Now it does have to be ultra stressful for the small guys with outstanding orders to vendors that are now potentially in flux, someone's going to get the shaft in that scenario. And realistically you just cant pass along all that cost, and now you're trying to use vessel shipping overseas rather than air because its cheaper so you can minimize impact on your customer and so now wait times are longer damaging your brand. Its gotta be rough out there if you weren't making an absolute killing beforehand. Thinking a lot of your mom and pop outdoor gear shops for instance (just something familiar to me), a lot of that kind of stuff comes from overseas, including China. You can't pass along 100% to your customer but you have a bunch of vendor orders outstanding.

Were not talking some big dollars or something for the economy, just recognizing that struggle that small businesses must have to go through.

On a big business side, this must be very costly, the automotive industry for instance I know already has hundreds of hands on deck from consulting firms trying to create software and product composition tracking to determine what is and isn't in compliance. The auto-industry in North American was designed with no border , American Gov't reports even group it all just as North America. So you're pumping money quick to try to get on top of this thing. And a light switch could flip and its no longer relevant.

Down 20% 401k since trump got elected.

I miss multiple genders.

Trump clearly helping the economy.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Fun fact below. But yes please stay the course.



https://x.com/truthgundlach/status/1910479456923508930?s=46

1. Inflation was caused, in no small part, by the Biden admin's mishandling of covid and the subsequent inflation surge. Remember when Biden and Democrats pushed for ever more stimulus and lockdowns? Remember when they said that inflation was gonna be "transitory" and that FED hikes thus aren't necessary yet?

Likewise, it was under the leadership of the Biden admin that the Western reaction to the invasion of Ukraine was heavy on inflation-fueling economic sanctions and light on weapon supplies.
Speaking of the Ukraine war: losing access to cheap Russian gas hurt the European economies a lot, but is far less of a factor for the North American market.

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2. Your chart is difficult to read. Mine shows fundamentally the same data, but in a much more clear presentation. Fact of the matter is that Trump did a rather bad job on the deficit during his first term, but considering the strong growth which accompanied it, the picture isn't quite as bad. But I have even better, clearer data:



https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1I1ic


As you can see, the debt to GDP ratio - which is THE key metric determining the sustainability of the deficit/debt - barely budged during Trump's term, although the nominal debt surged. Like I said, economic growth roughly backed it up until covid hit.

By contrast, once the recovery of the economy post-covid was complete, Biden's term saw an undeniable upward trajectory of the debt to GDP ratio. To put concrete numbers to it: public debt stood at 102.93% of GDP in Q1/2017, when Trump came into office, and stood at 105.78% in Q4/2019, before covid hit. That's a rise of 1.42% per year over Trump's pre-covid term. Biden's final two years in office, which are the ones less affected by covid, saw an increase of the debt to GDP of 3.02% per year.


Trump did rather bad in this regard, yet Biden more than doubled him.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 10 2025 08:25pm

But the 2025 budget was submitted by Biden… am I wrong?

Typically proposed/worked on prior year starting in fall. Current budged is not approved but congress can continue funding through continuing resolutions.

It was, and Biden was also president for 4 of the 6 months this tweet was referring to.
If Trump is even able to turn this ship around at all, it'll take a while.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 10 2025 08:49pm