you can dump alot of things in there all right.

Your argument isnt really valid. If IDF does boo boo its a mistake, if Hamas does it, its systematic? They are literally advocating for ethnic cleansing but what do I know.

And because Hamas (a terrorist group) killed civilians, Israel "the most moral army" needs to respond with killing 30x times as many civilians? (or whatever the X multiplier would be). Makes sense

Cleansing the Holy Land of all Jews ("from the River to the Sea...") is the state ideology in Palestine... or at the very least in its Hamas-controlled parts.
Ethnic cleansing is not Israel's state ideology. Also note that Israel is a functioning democracy, with a lively opposition, a critical press, courts, separation of powers and regular demonstrations against the government. Can't say the same about Gaza under Hamas rule, can you?

This is a common theme in Israeli rhetoric and it was discussed months ago in this topic. The current discussion in the thread related to the flattening of Gaza though. This discussion was put to one side while the fact that Israel attacked fire brigades and ambulances and then proceeded to hide the vehicles and the victims in a mass grave (hands tied behind back, shot at close range).

However, to humor you, I will return to this point, noting i believe my original arguments hold some merit:

1. It is true that there are bad things enshrined in Hamas charter. It is also true that they lack the ability to carry them out. In parallel, while not enshrined on a piece of paper, the cleansing of Gaza is visible for anyone with eyes to see, and a map of the West Bank over decades tells its own tale.
2. We also keep hearing of the fact that Israel is the only functioning democracy in the region. But we only need to point to the ambulance story, or the prisoners being raped or the two court justice system, or the fact that millions of palestinians are barred from voting to know the value of Israeli "democracy".

with brevity, there are less then 100 "hostages" in gaza while there remain thousands of "hostages" in israels "democratic justice system". Holding Israel up as a beacon of democracy is a shaky hill to stand on.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 10 2025 07:01am

Hamas has shown zero restraint. We saw on October 7 what happens when they get into a position to carry out their agenda: complete and total savagery rarely seen since the medieval times. Israel is constantly showing restraint; if they want to, they could have killed the entire 2+ million residents of Gaza years ago.

Palestinians and Arabs living in Israel can vote, are represented in parliament and even have judges on the highest courts in the land. The only disenfranchised folks are the residents of Gaza, who had voted in favor of Hamas the last time got to cast a ballot. Speaking of which, it's interesting that you complain about the Gazan's lack of voting rights in Israel while not even mentioning the fact that Hamas has suspended elections as soon as they got into power and hasn't given their own people a democratic choice in nearly 20 years.


Nobody claims that Israel is a shining beacon of democracy - just that their democracy, however flawed it might be - still contrasts incredibly favorably with any of its Arab neighbors.

im scratching my head here. your giving me too many things to talk about. i can do long format if you want, here is short format:

1. no one in this topic has defended hamas however the whole "Israel is the most moral army in the world" is getting very old now.
2. 5million+ Palestinians and Arabs living in Israel can NOT vote. You mention Gaza but then skip over the West Bank & East Jerusalem. If its all 1 country, as the Israeli's are suggesting then everyone should be allowed to vote. Else its apartheid.
3. I have repeatedly commented in the Ukrainian thread to the effect that I dont think its a good idea, from a Ukrainian perspective, for Ukraine to have elections during war time. They need Zelensky, he is a figurehead. This is not a new concept in wartime. With no meaningful international support Gaza is FUBAR. IF Hamas was wiped out tomorrow Israel's march would still continue.

Saying Israel is the only functioning democracy in the region is simply false. Jordan has elections, a parliament, an independent judiciary, and regular peaceful transitions of government policy. No one claims it's a perfect democracy—but by that standard, neither is Israel, especially when it disenfranchises millions and rules over them by military law.

oh, snap. no response. oh well.

anyways...

The Ukraine-Russia envoy for the US, Keith Kellogg, says Russia's attack on Sumy "crosses any line of decency". Writing on social media, Kellogg describes the ballistic missile strikes as "wrong". He adds that the US remains involved in brokering an end to the conflict: "It is why President Trump is working hard to end this war". In response to Kellogg's post, Zelensky's communications adviser Dmytro Lytvyn says: "Don’t you think it’s time to smack the Moscow mule across the nose with a 2x4 (two-by-four)?"

context: 32 people killed, 80 injured.

meanwhile 10's of thousands killed in Gaza and no condemnation and no drive to end the war.

bless!

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 13 2025 10:19am

Sorry man, I'm not interested in debating every single discussion to the bitter end, particularly when it's clear that the premises are off.





1. A lot of users in this thread have defended Hamas' goals while not saying a word of criticism about their heinous methods (hiding in schools and hospitals, using civilians as human shields).
2. It isn't one country, precisely because Israelis knows full well that a "one-state solution" would mean that Jews become a minority in "their own" country in the forseeable, near-term future - the country which was specifically founded as a safe haven for Jews around the world, the country whose whole raison d´être is to be the first/only Jewish-majority country on the planet. A full democracy with a hostile majority which wants to genocide you is not really a smart idea, is it?

This leaves a two-state solution as the only viable path forward. But even that isn't trivial when the Palestinians constantly use their self-governed territory as a rocket launching pad in direct proximity to Israel... On the flip side, the landgrabs Israel is carrying out in the West Bank are a big no-go, too. I've condemned them multiple times in this thread.
3. Gaza wasn't in a state of war pre-Oct7. It was Hamas which brought this war upon Gaza with their savage butchery. Likewise, the developments since Oct7 don't explain or excuse why there hadn't been a single election in Gaza between 2007 and 2023.



Jordan does have a functioning judiciary and parliamentary elections, yes, but this doesn't mean that it is actually a democracy. The Jordanian king is the head of state, commander-in-chief of the armed forces, it is him who appoints the prime minister and the government (not the parliament!) and he has full veto powers over any bills parliament might pass. He can unilaterally declare war or a state of emergency, dismiss the government or dissolve parliament. At the end of the day, nearly all power in the country is still vested in the king, rather than in democratically elected institutions. Therefore, the country is still an authoritarian monarchy with a democratic veneer, rather than the other way round.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 13 2025 10:39am

If nothing else I commend you for attempting to debate this. I will graciously refrain from responding, I am a bit tired.
of course, if you DO want me to respond, i will.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 13 2025 10:53am

Azov also hide in schools and hospitals and using civilians as shields but in a well thought out manner unlike the goat lovers.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Apr 13 2025 11:24am