Quote (bogie160 @ Mar 27 2025 10:29am)

QoL metrics are dogshit, but it's also something of a false dichotomy. If the United States and Canada were to establish free movement and a common border you'd see a dramatic increase in provincial GDP. In terms of HDI, all of the north-eastern states are all significantly better off than their Canadian counterparts. The question is whether Canadians want the QoL and relative wealth of the American north-east, not whether or not they want to have the QoL and relative wealth of Mississippi or Alabama.

Quote (bogie160 @ Mar 27 2025 09:08am)

Are we really arguing over the difference between 79.6 and 80.4 as some sort of be all end all of QoL? Canada clearly disagrees, or they wouldn't be legalizing euthanasia. Stop coping and don't be become obese.

Quote (SBD @ Mar 27 2025 09:30am)

I mean, Canada is ahead of the USA in home ownership, the average Canadian has less credit card debt, and QoL by most metrics are higher in Canada.

I'd say credit cards are a pretty good indicator when you start using wages as the be all end all.

Average Credit Card Balance:
The average credit card balance for Canadians in the second quarter of 2024 was $4,300

The average credit card balance per American consumer with an outstanding balance rose from $6,380 in the third quarter of 2024 to $6,580 in the fourth quarter of 2024.

As a I Canadian, I personally have no desire to ever become American. It's always wages, wages ,wages yet most statistics that matter other than GDP still favour Canada.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 27 2025 12:09pm)

Canadians have one of the highest burdens when it comes to home relating debt/disposable income.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 27 2025 10:09am)

I'm shocked you led with anything housing related as a strength for Canada when in reality it's one of the biggest weaknesses of Canada.

Canadians have one of the highest burdens when it comes to home relating debt/disposable income. Above pretty much all G7 nations, maybe with Australia being the exception.

Home ownership is a bad metric if you don't consider the flip side of it, which is the overwhelming debt that comes with it, and debt servicing costs that's drowning out other type of spend/savings. I was on vacation recently and met this Canadian lady and she was telling me how her son with his entire family lived with her for 10 years because they had no chance to purchase a home in southern Ontario.

Even the average CC balance is a flawed metric unless fully understood what it's made up of. You realize some of us can carry higher balances because we're richer in absolute terms, therefore we spend more on a monthly basis, that doesn't necessarily mean we're carrying that balance.

Quote (uskittles @ Mar 27 2025 12:16pm)

Right.. but the US is still worse. And the flip side (for us) is just rent reliance and ever expanding capital owners taking over the entire real estate market in the United States. We never even learned our lesson from the 2008 housing crisis.

Quote

Recent data highlights that Canadian households face a substantial financial strain from home payments. For instance, mortgage payments have been reported to consume a significant portion of household earnings, with estimates suggesting they account for around 59% of household income in recent years, according to sources like Bloomberg cited in public discussions. This figure reflects the pressure from rising home prices and interest rates, which have outpaced income growth in many parts of the country.

Additionally, Canada’s household debt-to-disposable-income ratio is among the highest in the G7, standing at 175.5% in the second quarter of 2024, down from a peak of 185.4% in late 2021, according to Statistics Canada. While this ratio includes all household debt (not just mortgages), mortgages constitute about 75% of that total, indicating that home payments are a major contributor to this burden. The debt service ratio—measuring obligated payments of principal and interest as a share of disposable income—was 14.97% in mid-2024, near historical highs, further underscoring the cost of maintaining home-related debt.
Comparatively, other countries like the United States show a lower burden. U.S. household debt-to-disposable-income ratios are significantly less, with mortgage debt service payments typically around 3-4% of disposable income in recent years, according to Federal Reserve data.

Quote (SBD @ Mar 27 2025 12:18pm)

If it was such a burden, Canadians would have higher CC debt to carry on with daily lives. They don't. What's the difference in median wealth? Is it significant, no, believe median wealth is actually behind Canada. You could say, well net wealth is tied to the inflating asset value of homes, but when you look at median disposable income, its not really that different. Obviously averages are but that's expected with the massive wealth sitting in America at the top end.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 27 2025 12:19pm)

No it's actually not.

Quote (uskittles @ Mar 27 2025 10:23am)

you're speaking of household debt, oh okay. yeah but that's just one thing to focus on. the amount of credit debt, medical debt, and many other forms of financial debt are the problems within the US. you can look at one form of debt and say the US has it better. that's misleading, and I think is the intention because conservatives often do this.

Quote (uskittles @ Mar 27 2025 12:23pm)

you're speaking of household debt, oh okay. yeah but that's just one thing to focus on. the amount of credit debt, medical debt, and many other forms of financial debt are the problems within the US. you can look at one form of debt and say the US has it better. that's misleading, and I think is the intention because conservatives often do this.