Ukraine being cooked was predicated from the start. It was painfully obvious.

Still this is not something we should celebrate as it’s ultimately the little people paying the ultimate price. The lost children, the widows, the handicapped, forgotten and abandoned after the dust has long settled.

I pray for all victims of this injustice.

One can only hope that Ukraine’s complete devastation, sacrificed on the altar of Washington’s geopolitical ambitions, serves as yet another warning to all nations: NEVER EVER allow yourselves to be used as a proxy by the US.

This post was edited by Malopox on Feb 19 2025 03:02pm

Ramping up military production is not a win, it's a cost. Unless you are United States and can use / threaten to use this military to get best deals on the globe. But there is only place for one global hegemon and that's not Russia...


So prior to war they could choose whether to buy US tech, China tech or Russian tech. And they were choosing US tech. But now they are forced to buy Chineese tech or develop something on their own if they don't like it. How is this a win...? And if we know this, then Xi knows this as well. Do you think he's offering Russia better deals now, when there is no alternative?


BRICS is still a joke and the status of USD as a global currency is only getting stronger and stronger:


I will grant you that Russia is now in a better place that it would've been had it let NATO expand even more into the Ukraine and done nothing about it. And that they will probably get a lot out of Ukraine from the peace deal. But it wasn't without a cost...

Um... How did the US become the hegemon? By having #1 military production, #1 military capacity, and the willingness to use it. After all the munitions we have given to Ukraine, we no longer meet operational readiness standards, and it's estimated it'll be anywhere from 3 to 5 years before the old cold war era production facilities are ramped up enough simply to replace what we've given away. Why you claim that heightened military capacity is not a "win" when they actively have a NATO-backed nation attacking them and EU nations are making noises at sending mass amounts of money and troops to Ukraine, I have no idea.

And no, they couldn't choose whether to buy tech from the US or China. China dealt with US companies. If Russia needed tech, they had to buy from American companies, who were reselling Chinese-produced products. By now being able to trade directly with China, they're bypassing the disgustingly high middle-man markup imposed by the US. It's a clear win.

I'm not certain what SWIFT numbers has to do with the strength of BRICS. SWIFT banned the majority of the largest Russian banks from transacting, and SWIFT was barely used at all for Russian currency in the first place. All that chart really shows is that the USD is crushing the EU.

And we agree, Russia is in a better place. Hence why I'm asking what exactly it "cost" Russia to not allow NATO to expand into Ukraine. What did it "cost" Russia to not allow the genocide of the ethnic Russians of the Donbas to continue?

I'd say the most major cost, given Russia has a history of not caring about the human cost, would be the blowing up of NS2. But even that isn't much of a cost to Russia. It's far more of a cost to Germany, who were looking forward to cheap LNG with no environmental impact and no transportation cost, and now no longer have that resource. So, cost for the EU, and Germany in particular. Russia will still sell their gas, and indeed are selling their LNG, to CHINA, via pipeline.

It's not looking bad for Russia at all. Now that the axe of the US Military isn't swinging over their head, it's looking almost rosey, compared to this time last year.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 19 2025 03:24pm

If that's such a good deal, then why hadn't they been doing this all this time before the war...?


US has been and still is the global hegemon. The war in Ukraine changed nothing in this regard. Russia was barely able to capture some Ukraine territory and it took them 3 years to do this. And they wouldn't have done this if they weren't pushed to the wall, because they knew war would be costly.


Everybody on Earth wants access to USD markets. Russian's too. That's why dollar can be used as a weapon and is very effective at this. But, don't believe me. Straight from the horse's mouth:
https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1849061125414896076
Even he'd prefer to still transact in USD, rather than scramble to develop alternatives.


Yes, they will sell to China. But not at as high of a price as they could've charged when Europe was still competing for Russian gas. Cost for Europe will, of course, be great as well. And who will profit from this the most? US, selling expensive gas to Europeans.

Once again, they weren't doing it prior to the war because China dealt with the US companies. If I have a contract with you that says I will produce my product in your country using your labor force and the condition is that you can not compete with us on the global stage, then that's what it is. And technically, China is still, to this day, holding up their end of the bargain. US Tech companies are still prohibited from doing business with Russia. Therefore, the Chinese are not competing with our companies, because their customer is not our customer.

It doesn't matter if the US is the hegemon right now. The fact is that no other nation can slide into that role, or even negotiate with the US from a level playing field if they are not prepared to suffer from and respond to immediate military attack. Russia is now far more well prepared than they have been at any time since the fall of the USSR.

You didn't address my question at all. Why are you using SWIFT numbers to try to claim BRICS is irrelevant, when SWIFT banned the majority of Russian banks, thereby insuring that Russia's currency is seldom transacted using their service?

Um... Prior to the Ukrainian war, Russia didn't sell nearly the LNG to China they do today because Russia did not like China. This new found partnership with China only occurred BECAUSE of the war. Russia's current economic ties to China and Iran are new, friend. This is something that Ukraine, the US, NATO, and the EU has caused to happen. And it's a massive win for Russia.

Again, still waiting to hear exactly what this war has "cost" the Russians.

I’ve told you what the cost was, you just don’t want to understand what I am saying. Pretending that Russians are playing 3D chess and every blow to them is actually not a blow, because they can easily get better deals whenever they want, wherever they want. Why didn’t they before…? And why did they bother trading with Europe if it didn’t benefit them?

I used this chart just as an example. The full answer is that the eurodollar system (nothing to do with EUR currency) rules the global market. Actually it is the global market. And, for reasons not that important right now, it is denominated in USD. Whoever doesn’t have access to USDs is not allowed to play. They can go dig their own hole in the sand, together with other outcasts, waiting to be allowed again to build castles with the cool kids. And no, eurodollar is not SWIFT.

I do agree with you though that bringing Russia and China closer together was a big mistake by Biden administration. Idiots are plenty in politics, on all sides.

The Russians aren't playing 3D chess. Nearly every result that has ended positive for them was directly caused by the actions of Ukraine, the United States, and the EU. They have reacted quite well to their circumstances, to a point that their military, economy, and alliances within Asia are stronger than ever. None of which should have happened.

Which brings me back to what did it COST them? We both agree regarding the human cost. In fact, we agree so strongly you've chosen not even to address it. Yet you've admitted that yes, Russia is in a stronger position today than at the start of the war.

I would theorize that the reason you can't list a lot of other costs is because there aren't any. It wouldn't shock me at all if Trump starts reengaging trade with Russia, very soon, and starts lifting the sanctions. The theory is if we can get them back into the fold, they will stop working with China, Iran, India, and Brazil in supplanting the USD as a reserve currency.

My primary concern over that... A lot of assets were seized, primarily by the EU and by EU nations, from Russian Citizens. The US isn't going to reimburse Russia for those thefts. What happens when the Europeans ARE given their seat at the table, and they're hit with reimbursement costs for what they STOLE from Russian citizens as a red line requirement?

Why do you think we're kept alive with the bare minimum? To serve the rich and corporations. If tomorrow your country decide to go at war with another country, you can be sure if there's risks your country get invaded, you'll be drafted most likely. That's how much freedom you have and how valuable you are as a npc that was given a name and ssn at birth.

It was not exactly an idiot mistake if you think about it. It is more of a I have a bigger dxxk than you little poor, weak and impoverish dipshit thinking you can outsmart me from the NeoCons and Liberal Interventionist.
So hold my beer and watch me, I am going to use Ukraine to wreck Russia and I am going to make you squint eye Chinese bend to my will for having the balls to compete with me economically.

It backfired.

Long Story short.... look at how Kissinger played the Chinese against the Russians. It was a win.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Feb 19 2025 04:56pm

They lost a lot of good contracts with Europeans. Maybe they’ll get them back, maybe not. For now they don’t have them.

China won’t be giving them good price, knowing how dependent Russia is on them right now. That’s a cost of selling your gas cheaper than prior.

Russia-China love affair may or may not last. There were reasons they were enemies before, not all of them evaporated.

Building army, instead of producing something of real use is a cost. If you don’t believe me - take a month off from work, make a lot of fireworks in your garage and then one day blow them off in the air. That’s basically what military spending is.

They are partially cut-off from the global markets. It’s more difficult for them to get dollars. And Western investors can’t invest in Russian stock market. That’s a cost.

I didn’t say they are better off now than before war. They are better off now than if they had let NATO put missiles that can reach Moscow in Ukraine bases. But they had to pay for the safety.

Honestly, it’s a bit hypocritical of you to be insisting I answer this rather obvious question while ignoring all the points I’ve made. I sense you are not arguing in good faith, just trying fence with words like a lawyer in a court…