Sounds good!

Seriously. I mean, there are some preconceptions there that don't play out. But yeah, sure.

Have you forgotten what it is to be a sovereign nation?

The current structure was established over decades with mutual dialogue and agreements. 8 Countries are currently not meeting the 2%. I think it's more than fair to demand equal contribution of all parts, meaning settling at around 3,5% GPD contribution (which is what the US does), especially with increasing threats. I'd instantly support US position on this.
The main problem for europe is not really the spending for NATO, i think there could be an easy agreement on that.

What really concerns EU leaders are:
1) The speech on a security conference wasn't used for getting higher contributions, but for direct interference in upcoming elections and our understanding of democracy. Maybe he forgot what sovereign nations are? This has nothing to do with NATO or anything military.
2) Talks to russia without Europeans. I think this was mainly due to the fact that US leadership has no idea yet what it actually plans. Pretty chaotic.
3) Loss of trust. It seems like US leadership prefers hang out with a dictator that is a proxy war with your longest allies and make some shady deals that might be helpful in inner politics, but not for security.

All this leads to questioning the biggest military alliance in the world and creates a loss/loss situation for USA and Europe, strengthening Russia, China etc.
Does it make sense to invest in a coalition you can't rely on anymore? The US military complex is extremely strong and US has alot of leverage, but it's naive to think that is can keep up long term in a world against russia, china, europe and india. Everybody needs allies.

Europe get your fucking ass up and US don't betray everyone close to you.

This post was edited by BaHgerAUT on Feb 18 2025 03:53am

Fair enough. For a point by point:

1. So? When you suppress one viewpoint, which will directly impact the vote, is it democracy? The first key to democracy is an informed vote. Is it actually democracy if you suppress the other side? European nations' ideas of democracy SHOULD be challenged. If they cannot stand up to the challenge, they aren't democracies. Simple enough. Nobody says you MUST be democratic. But if you're going to claim to be so, then be so.

2. The US doesn't need moderators to talk with Russia. We're a sovereign nation and the primary world superpower. Why the fuck do our talks with Russia depend on Europe? That's the most boneheaded bullshit I've ever heard.

3. The US hasn't trusted Europe for decades. European nations have begged our help with money, military, and equipment since WWII, and nothing we've provided has ever shown a return. Why should we care if Europe trusts us, when your continued existence as you are provides zero benefit to the United States?

I'm not saying Europe is irrelevant, but you're getting close. I'd rather work with Russia and let the EU drown in it's own ineffectuality.

I think this perception is wrong. We have more than 5 trillion of mutual interests. A good portion of both our wealth is based on that partnership. And a functioning relationship between us doesn't stop you from finding new markets and ties. Even the trade surpulus is closing over recent years as we highly purchase your tech Services.

Trump is putting that on the table for what? Russia? What does russia have? You hardly have any trading with them, you have all resources it offers and russia offer zero Technology. All you want is russia to be as tiny as possible. And you basically crushed russias military and economy for peanuts the last 3 years.

It would all make sense if you'd have to give up a much bigger cake on the horizon for less important europe, but that isn't the case. Trump is bringing a 15 times smaller country that threatens your allies to eye level with zero future benefit. Even worse, it's an ally of your biggest competitor, China.

This post was edited by BaHgerAUT on Feb 18 2025 05:11am

Russia was our second largest trading partner. Higher than Mexico, or Canada, and any EU nation, and we sanctioned them to help out the EU. At our own loss.

Result? The US Dollar is on the fritz as the reserve currency. BRICS is now a military alliance, and BRICS nations all view the USD as optional. We no longer hit operational readiness standards in munitions and armament due to what we gave to Ukraine.

The EU tariffs all our products to prevent us from competing with EU companies, yet we allow them to set up 1 assembly plant onshore then import all their shit duty free.

Nah, Russia sold us all the raw materials we turned into expensive product. Now we don't have it. The EU doesn't produce it, and we don't produce it in the quantities we need. By helping Europeans who won't even go to the table with Russia, merely demand that the US do something about the "EVIL DICTATOR!" the US has harmed itself beyond belief.

Europe is buckling under it's own social welfare state. They've protected all their own companies to prevent the US from offering good products for far cheaper than European companies can produce it for so much cheaper that it'd improve the lives of all Europeans, meanwhile, they want us to sink all our blood and treasure into fighting a greater trade ally. Russia is our friend. And they always were. Even during the worst days of the cold war, the trade never stopped. It's about time the Obama era of bowing to foreign kings stopped. The US was founded by fighting for and WINNING the right to never bow to anyone ever again. For ANY American. It's time we trade with the partner who conducts business. The EU doesn't conduct business. You protect your own companies, sue our companies for billions on a regular basis and provide little and less of value to help Americans in their daily lives.

The EU is irrelevant.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 18 2025 05:22am

pre war times the exports from usa to russia were 6b, imports 14b
exports to EU in 2024 = $370.2 billion, imports over 500b
idk why russia would be larger?

49x the trade volume of pre war trading with russia. fourtynine.

The only thing strictly regulated for usa in europe is food and people in europe just highly value quality here.

This post was edited by BaHgerAUT on Feb 18 2025 05:51am

You don't understand. Our imports from Russia weren't valuable imports. They were shit like crude oil, fertilizer, LNG, base metals and stone, and other low value raw products. The US used said raw products, processed them, to make an excessively high quantity of high value end products, as well as "middle of the line" products that we sold to both end users and other producers for further processing.

And when you talk about "pre-war" imports and exports, yet pull numbers from 2021, it's pretty fucking dishonest, don't you think? Pull the numbers instead from 2016. Before the Trump era sanctions went into place, then adjust for inflation. Further, comparing trade numbers from the entire EU to the trade numbers for Russia, 27 nations vs 1, is laughable. The EU is not one nation. They are sinking as one nation, but they are NOT one nation.

But it is good that you point out that the US imports so very much more from the EU than it exports to the EU. Reread what I said about how the EU tariffs the US to protect it's own companies, preventing US competition in European markets. And look at the EU outcry over the Trump Administration seeking to impose reciprocal tariffs on the EU. Your governments are panicking. Because the United States LOSES when we do business with your nations. We've only ever gained when we do business with Russia. We buy cheap raw goods from them, process those raw products, and sell them at a premium to the entire planet.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 18 2025 05:56am

why 2016? it was 9 years ago. i chose 2021 as it included trumps policies and pre-war; you've already established new lines to replace russias 2016 trades. 39 times smaller trade volume if you compare it to us/eu trade in 2021. But 2024 numbers are at stake currently.
Trading for all EU countries is regulated EU-wide, so you can take it as one country.

You're free to have your opinion, but i don't see any logical argument in this. Russia is meaningless to USA economy in 2025 and i hardly see any US economists supporting that stance.

And tbh, i see most of the russian talks as domestic policy to support his claims before elections, and as tool to apply maximum pressure to EU; Without sacrificing a good majority of our trade.
Or Putin knows how to trigger the big ego of your president.

This post was edited by BaHgerAUT on Feb 18 2025 06:15am

2021 included 3 years worth of sanctions and trade cutoffs.

2016 included none of the above. And new lines of trade were not established. The price of crude, LNG, fertilizers, iron, lead, and many, MANY other raw elements are still WAY over 2016 prices, because Russia was a primary supplier.

You don't understand how trade operates. You're attempting to claim, "Well, all that matters is money in, money out." Wrong. VERY wrong. What the US purchased from Russia was needed to fuel US Production. The overwhelming majority of what the US "imports" from the EU is end product to be sold to consumers that is sidestepping tariffs by having one "assembly plant" in the US.

Meanwhile, US-produced products are tariffed to hell in the EU. Which is why we have such an incredible trade deficit. Europeans are forced to pay more for American goods because the same US product that sells for $50 in the US costs $350 in the EU. Not because of corporate markup. Because of EU tariffs.

You sound EXACTLY like the Canadians scrambling to justify their 289% milk tariff when they started crying about a 25% general tariff.

Trump's recipricol tariffs are going to destroy the EU. And you still don't even understand why. Russia understands why. China understands why. And BOTH of them are EAGER to continue doing business with the US without EU interference. And life will IMPROVE for the US once we kick all the EU fronts out of our nation, and get back into the business of production and sale, and out of the business of licking the ball sacks of nations who couldn't survive if we weren't taking their tariffs up the ass without response.

We will not bow to you, and without the US, the EU is NOTHING. You do not meet your own military needs. You do not meet your own energy needs. You do not meet your own healthcare needs. The EU dies tomorrow if the US and China cut off trade. And why would China cut off trade? Who do you think China benefits trading more from, the EU, or the US?

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 18 2025 06:28am