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Jan 23 2025 12:07pm
RLT is neither an open nor unmonitored marketplace.


silk road being open, 100% agree there. unmonitored? i doubt a lack of active moderation would stand up in court to back up that claim.

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You're attempting to conflate an owner of a Mall or Marketplace with the owner of a business. Silk Road did not sell ANY products. Silk Road did not buy ANY products. Silk Road, from what I can discover about it, was merely a bitcoin processor/intermediary. They were effectively acting like Stripe, Visa, or Mastercard, along with providing vendors (be they businesses or individuals) a place where they can conduct their business.

People use payment transfers to pay for drugs, prostitutes, and even murder all the time. Should Stripe, Visa, Mastercard, etc. be held liable for those transfers? Or, once again, are the sellers/buyers of drugs responsible for what they sell/buy? Again, it is NOT the responsibility of the mall owner to police the actions of a business within their mall. It is the responsibility of the POLICE to enforce the law.


i'm not, as i said he didnt participate in the actual drug trading. if he did i wouldnt suggest a fine with no jail time, as i did.

as to mastercard, visa, etc. when approached by authorities they generally cooperate and pass along any and all info that is requested. and their activities are on legitimate channels. silk road existed literally on the darknet, that placement on the tor network alone is enough for any prosecutor to convince a jury of illegal activity intent. you wont find many fun and legal things on the darknet, as any low level IT witness could tell a jury.

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And yet again, not all nations have laws banning drugs, or their sales or purchase, and silk road catered to all bitcoin transactions internationally. So even claiming that all the drug sales that took place were illegal in the first place isn't correct.


right, so toss out any charges on those and just prosecute for the US to US consumer sales. of which there's what? tens or hundreds of thousands? i knew rave kids who all got their shit mailed to them from silk road at the time, the stuff never interested me as i dont like being high or even drunk in public much.
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Jan 23 2025 12:10pm
Payment processors are subject to kyc/aml laws within whatever jurisdictions they transact in. It's not just about legality of item/service being exchanged. I'm sure he knew that, which is why he deserves some jail time but life sentence is cray cray for a non-violent crime

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Jan 23 2025 12:11pm
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Jan 23 2025 12:17pm
right, so toss out any charges on those and just prosecute for the US to US consumer sales. of which there's what? tens or hundreds of thousands? i knew rave kids who all got their shit mailed to them from silk road at the time, the stuff never interested me as i dont like being high or even drunk in public much.


No. Toss out all the charges period. Which Trump quite literally DID. Silk Road neither purchased nor sold drugs. They were a payment processor that provided a mall.

You appear to have missed the entire point about Stripe/Visa/Mastercard AND the Mall scenario. The mall doesn't kick a business out based on allegations. It is up to law enforcement to gather evidence enough to charge the business within the mall for illegal practices. Only AFTER they have been convicted does the mall kick them out of the mall. Likewise, neither the credit card companies nor stripe nor any other payment processor is required to provide transaction records "to authorities" without a search warrant signed by a judge, and that warrant can and SHOULD be challenged by lawyers prior to it's execution. As it was NOT the payment processor who committed any crime.

You're attempting to pass off law enforcement onto business owners. That's not how law enforcement works. Police enforce the law, and DAs pursue charges. What actually happened with Silk Road was a guy who provided a payment processing service for bitcoin was blamed for crimes committed by other people, yet the majority of those "other people" who actually committed the crimes were never prosecuted. He was, effectively, given two life sentences plus forty years for not acting in a law enforcement capacity.
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Jan 23 2025 12:17pm
Payment processors are subject to kyc/aml laws within whatever jurisdictions they transact in. It's not just about legality of item/service being exchanged. I'm sure he knew that, which is why he deserves some jail time but life sentence is cray cray for a non-violent crime


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Ulbricht's trial began on 13 January 2015 in federal court in Manhattan.[45] At the start of the trial, Ulbricht admitted to founding the Silk Road website, but claimed to have transferred control of the site to other people soon after he founded it.[46] Ulbricht's lawyers contended that Dread Pirate Roberts was really Mark Karpelès, and that Karpelès set up Ulbricht as a fall guy.[47] However, Judge Katherine B. Forrest ruled that any speculative statements regarding whether Karpelès or anyone else ran Silk Road would not be allowed, and statements already made would be stricken from the record.[48]


this imo is where he got railroaded the hardest. judge basically said "you can't claim you didnt run it, you have to argue that running it was a legal thing to do". ironic that he's a folk hero who is attributed the DreadPirateRoberts persona, but tried to argue in court that it wasn't even him.

courts are just so far behind on anon web spaces. i can't imagine being in court and being called "ofthevoid" then trying to explain no that's not me i'm "thesnipa" and having to prove it with web jargon no one on the court or jury understands.
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Jan 23 2025 12:19pm
No. Toss out all the charges period. Which Trump quite literally DID. Silk Road neither purchased nor sold drugs. They were a payment processor that provided a mall.

You appear to have missed the entire point about Stripe/Visa/Mastercard AND the Mall scenario. The mall doesn't kick a business out based on allegations. It is up to law enforcement to gather evidence enough to charge the business within the mall for illegal practices. Only AFTER they have been convicted does the mall kick them out of the mall. Likewise, neither the credit card companies nor stripe nor any other payment processor is required to provide transaction records "to authorities" without a search warrant signed by a judge, and that warrant can and SHOULD be challenged by lawyers prior to it's execution. As it was NOT the payment processor who committed any crime.

You're attempting to pass off law enforcement onto business owners. That's not how law enforcement works. Police enforce the law, and DAs pursue charges. What actually happened with Silk Road was a guy who provided a payment processing service for bitcoin was blamed for crimes committed by other people, yet the majority of those "other people" who actually committed the crimes were never prosecuted. He was, effectively, given two life sentences plus forty years for not acting in a law enforcement capacity.


this is a bit silly imo. allegations? as if we're talking about a mall where the foot locker employees take people behind closed doors and sell them meth? these weren't foot lockers, they were wide open advertisements for drugs. so for the comparison to work you'd have to say its a mall that hosts stores called "Meth here", "clean Molly", "Acid emporium", and "heroin heroes". like what?
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Jan 23 2025 12:22pm
this is a bit silly imo. allegations? as if we're talking about a mall where the foot locker employees take people behind closed doors and sell them meth? these weren't foot lockers, they were wide open advertisements for drugs. so for the comparison to work you'd have to say its a mall that hosts stores called "Meth here", "clean Molly", "Acid emporium", and "heroin heroes". like what?


So? It was an unmonitored marketplace. Further, everything you're saying actually harms law enforcement.

MANY "dark web" sites have remained untouched where everything from drug sales to terrorist planning takes place. Law enforcement LOVES those sites. Because when shit's being advertised point blank, it's easier for them to discover the identity of root dealers to bring them to justice. Case in point: People STILL use bitcoin to purchase and sell narcotics. All shutting Silk Road did was make them more difficult to track down.

Also, "dark web" is meaningless. All it indicates is a site that isn't linked from a search engine. 99.999% of the internet is "dark web".
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Jan 23 2025 12:34pm
So? It was an unmonitored marketplace. Further, everything you're saying actually harms law enforcement.

MANY "dark web" sites have remained untouched where everything from drug sales to terrorist planning takes place. Law enforcement LOVES those sites. Because when shit's being advertised point blank, it's easier for them to discover the identity of root dealers to bring them to justice. Case in point: People STILL use bitcoin to purchase and sell narcotics. All shutting Silk Road did was make them more difficult to track down.

Also, "dark web" is meaningless. All it indicates is a site that isn't linked from a search engine. 99.999% of the internet is "dark web".


firstly, there's a disconnect here bobb. between you and what Rich and his lawyers argued in court. they didnt argue for the legitimacy of Silk Road as a legal enterprise. they argued that while Rich founded it he did not control it. so that's a big issue for arguing the legitimacy of it imo, when a guy who was heading to prison with huge pricetag lawyers didnt even attempt it. now you can make some argument about the legal system being corrupt in this context, and i'd tend to agree, but in reality it was a slam dunk case for whatever charges the DA chose. they just went with way too big of charges because they wanted to make an example out of silk road.

secondly you can vaguely define "dark web" but when its on the tor network that's not. and again you can make legit arguments about how there's no inherent illegality associated with using it, and again i'd agree, you can't in reality convince a jury of laymen that a website only accessible via that network has innocuous intentions. it just wont happen in court as has been established.

lastly tho, the website had a smoking gun. not only did it endorse the sale of drug use in it's official terms of service, but it actually provided a guide on how to vaccum seal drug products to avoid detection in mailing services. it was neither unmonitored, nor unmoderated, nor can they claim any level of ignorance to the illegal activities carried out on the site.

literally the only legal avenue Rich had was to prove he didnt operate the site, and that why i said above he was railroaded.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jan 23 2025 12:34pm
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Jan 23 2025 12:54pm
firstly, there's a disconnect here bobb. between you and what Rich and his lawyers argued in court. they didnt argue for the legitimacy of Silk Road as a legal enterprise. they argued that while Rich founded it he did not control it. so that's a big issue for arguing the legitimacy of it imo, when a guy who was heading to prison with huge pricetag lawyers didnt even attempt it. now you can make some argument about the legal system being corrupt in this context, and i'd tend to agree, but in reality it was a slam dunk case for whatever charges the DA chose. they just went with way too big of charges because they wanted to make an example out of silk road.

secondly you can vaguely define "dark web" but when its on the tor network that's not. and again you can make legit arguments about how there's no inherent illegality associated with using it, and again i'd agree, you can't in reality convince a jury of laymen that a website only accessible via that network has innocuous intentions. it just wont happen in court as has been established.

lastly tho, the website had a smoking gun. not only did it endorse the sale of drug use in it's official terms of service, but it actually provided a guide on how to vaccum seal drug products to avoid detection in mailing services. it was neither unmonitored, nor unmoderated, nor can they claim any level of ignorance to the illegal activities carried out on the site.

literally the only legal avenue Rich had was to prove he didnt operate the site, and that why i said above he was railroaded.


Most of what you are saying is meaningless. Silk Road, point blank, would not have been targeted had the exchanges been taxed. They weren't.

Think of it like this: If you and I are neighbors, and you grow oranges, and I grow apples, if I trade you 10 pounds of apples for 10 pounds of oranges, that's what we both get. 10 pounds of the other's produce. If, however, I SELL you 10 pounds of apples for cash, I now have to pay tax on that "income". And between SSI/FICA (which I'd have to pay not just the personal, but the employer matcch), Unimployment Insurance, State and Federal income tax on, would amount to a bit over 30%. So now, when I go back over to YOUR house to buy your oranges, I can only buy 7 pounds of your oranges, not 10. The means to purchase the other 3 pounds have been seized by the government.

Enter Silk Road. All transactions were barter. Bitcoin was not a taxable currency. The government never CARED that drugs were being traded on the site. If they did, there are dozens of other "dark web" sites that are very well known that do the same thing, just using USD. The Government doesn't go after the market place owner because why would they? The owner isn't selling or buying drugs. They're just offering payment proccessing and a mall for people to exchange their shit in. However, the US Government can track all the transactions to insure they're properly taxed, AND they can target dealers if/when they choose.

The drug charges were a bullshit way to go after people who chose to use the barter system, rather than the USD, while having the US Public swallow a bullshit story about the site being somehow "dangerous" as opposed to an excellent tool for Law Enforcement to use to track down drug dealers. :)
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Jan 23 2025 01:01pm
Most of what you are saying is meaningless. Silk Road, point blank, would not have been targeted had the exchanges been taxed. They weren't.

Think of it like this: If you and I are neighbors, and you grow oranges, and I grow apples, if I trade you 10 pounds of apples for 10 pounds of oranges, that's what we both get. 10 pounds of the other's produce. If, however, I SELL you 10 pounds of apples for cash, I now have to pay tax on that "income". And between SSI/FICA (which I'd have to pay not just the personal, but the employer matcch), Unimployment Insurance, State and Federal income tax on, would amount to a bit over 30%. So now, when I go back over to YOUR house to buy your oranges, I can only buy 7 pounds of your oranges, not 10. The means to purchase the other 3 pounds have been seized by the government.

Enter Silk Road. All transactions were barter. Bitcoin was not a taxable currency. The government never CARED that drugs were being traded on the site. If they did, there are dozens of other "dark web" sites that are very well known that do the same thing, just using USD. The Government doesn't go after the market place owner because why would they? The owner isn't selling or buying drugs. They're just offering payment proccessing and a mall for people to exchange their shit in. However, the US Government can track all the transactions to insure they're properly taxed, AND they can target dealers if/when they choose.

The drug charges were a bullshit way to go after people who chose to use the barter system, rather than the USD, while having the US Public swallow a bullshit story about the site being somehow "dangerous" as opposed to an excellent tool for Law Enforcement to use to track down drug dealers. :)


i mean i dont disagree overall, silk road got the axe because it used BTC and encryption. but are you saying there are websites for peer to peer illegal drug sales where buyers pay tax on the transactions and sellers pay tax on the transactions? all illegal drug sales im aware of are black market taxless transactions, so you lost me there.
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Jan 23 2025 01:09pm
i mean i dont disagree overall, silk road got the axe because it used BTC and encryption. but are you saying there are websites for peer to peer illegal drug sales where buyers pay tax on the transactions and sellers pay tax on the transactions? all illegal drug sales im aware of are black market taxless transactions, so you lost me there.


Yes, ofc there are p2p drug sales that taxes are paid on. All the time.

Don't you remember the whole campaign back while Obama was President, that was revived late in Trump's term, to convince "criminals" to file taxes on illicit activities as well as legal activities? The basic promise that "we won't charge you for prostitution or drug sales or anything based on your returns, but we WILL come after you and throw you in prison for tax evasion if you don't pay taxes on your income"?

Plenty of businesses out there are merely legal "fronts" for drug pedaling. The finances on that second hand store look solid enough, until you ask the basic question, "How can a 1000 square foot second hand store be making $4 Million a month?" Yet as long as taxes are paid, the government mostly turns a blind eye, unless and until a bunch of children start ending up dead from the drugs sold through that business.

Once you realize it's all racketeering to begin with, then you start to understand that action is only taken if the racketeers (in this case the government) aren't getting their 30% cut, OR people start dropping dead at higher than normal rates from overdose or poisoning.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Jan 23 2025 01:13pm
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