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Dec 21 2024 03:19pm
Amazing argument champ!


im simply giving an observation not an argument lol, if you think so then you have a great mind
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Dec 21 2024 03:29pm
I wonder how much of this has to do with the government being simply unable to keep up with the number of such complains or not having enough to action and actually do something. They've literally let in hundreds of thousands of potential perps. If this guy didn't commit a crime, can they simply arrest him based on some schizo tweets? Lets say those private citizen complaints did make it to some counter-terrorism unit, again what are they arresting and charging him with? Do they keep permanent surveillance on him since they don't have enough to arrest or what?

Not asking this to absolve the gov't obviously they fucked up, but at the same time when Germany has let in millions of Muslims from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, from plenty of terrorist hot spots, it becomes a herculean task to prevent shit like this IMO.


I mean, what's the whole point of the post 9/11 global security state if someone can have visible radicalized social media, be repeatedly warned about by private citizens trying to contact their government and be repeatedly warned about at the state level by another government. We're not talking about just a layup, this is the most possible help the government could get in advance of a terror attack short of a terrorist changing their mind, apologizing and surrendering voluntarily. And at this point, the germans would probably give them a pat on the head and say 'keep out of trouble'.

We spend billions for the DHS / FBI / CIA to do this kind of surveillance in america. Germany can't catch someone with big flashing red arrows pointed at him from every direction?
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Dec 21 2024 03:36pm
I wonder how much of this has to do with the government being simply unable to keep up with the number of such complains or not having enough to action and actually do something. They've literally let in hundreds of thousands of potential perps. If this guy didn't commit a crime, can they simply arrest him based on some schizo tweets? Lets say those private citizen complaints did make it to some counter-terrorism unit, again what are they arresting and charging him with? Do they keep permanent surveillance on him since they don't have enough to arrest or what?

Not asking this to absolve the gov't obviously they fucked up, but at the same time when Germany has let in millions of Muslims from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, from plenty of terrorist hot spots, it becomes a herculean task to prevent shit like this IMO.


Dude this guy was a wanted terrorist in his home country who Germany protected & refused to extradite
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Dec 21 2024 03:59pm
Dude this guy was a wanted terrorist in his home country who Germany protected & refused to extradite


There's thousands of dissidents from regressive shitholes that hide in western countries. Germany is a top destination. You have oppressive governments across the ME that would love nothing more than for Germany or Sweden or fill in the blank to send back people back to Turkey or SA or Pakistan so they can kill some dissident based on trumped up charges. Saudi Arabia is one of the most repressive places in the world. It's not talked about enough because they are a US ally and counterbalance in the fight against Iran, but they're bad. It's one of the few places on earth where you would go to jail for having a Bible, or women aren't allowed to walk without male companions. It's one of the few places on earth in which you have modern day indentured servitude, they have over 700k people living in modern slavery (many are immigrants from India or other places stuck in indentured servitude) far above any other Arab state, and they rank 4th on the global slave index. In a just world, the Saud family and tens of thousands of these Saudi slavers would be publicly executed and be put on stakes lining the road to Mecca, GOT style.

So when this type of government requests an extradition, you really have to think about what the charge is, and if there's any validity to it. I get why Germany said no, in this case it was a mistake, but 9/10 times it's probably the right call.

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Dec 21 2024 04:30pm
There's thousands of dissidents from regressive shitholes that hide in western countries. Germany is a top destination. You have oppressive governments across the ME that would love nothing more than for Germany or Sweden or fill in the blank to send back people back to Turkey or SA or Pakistan so they can kill some dissident based on trumped up charges. Saudi Arabia is one of the most repressive places in the world. It's not talked about enough because they are a US ally and counterbalance in the fight against Iran, but they're bad. It's one of the few places on earth where you would go to jail for having a Bible, or women aren't allowed to walk without male companions. It's one of the few places on earth in which you have modern day indentured servitude, they have over 700k people living in modern slavery (many are immigrants from India or other places stuck in indentured servitude) far above any other Arab state, and they rank 4th on the global slave index. In a just world, the Saud family and tens of thousands of these Saudi slavers would be publicly executed and be put on stakes lining the road to Mecca, GOT style.

So when this type of government requests an extradition, you really have to think about what the charge is, and if there's any validity to it. I get why Germany said no, in this case it was a mistake, but 9/10 times it's probably the right call.


Dissident?

Do you truly not understand that the narrative & kind of thinking you display here is the problem and the cause of this massacre? Just because you disagree with Saudi law & system of government doesn't mean that all of their criminals are just peaceful loving dissidents.

This post was edited by El1te on Dec 21 2024 04:44pm
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Dec 21 2024 06:34pm
Dissident?

Do you truly not understand that the narrative & kind of thinking you display here is the problem and the cause of this massacre? Just because you disagree with Saudi law & system of government doesn't mean that all of their criminals are just peaceful loving dissidents.


I didn't say he was a dissident, i said just because they consider someone a criminal doesn't always mean it's true, and that's one of the primary reasons the Germans or other western countries don't always extradite to those shitholes or take what they say with a grain of salt. Because they are inherently oppressive and will slap bs trumped up crimes half the time on people they want to shut up.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Dec 21 2024 06:35pm
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Dec 22 2024 01:48am
If you thought sheltering a known terrorist was a good decision for atheist ideological reasons, while having contempt for human trafficking law, you're part of the problem


You have provided zero evidence for the claim that the German government was driven by "atheist ideology". :rolleyes: Our societies in the West value religious and personal freedom, so if a girl faces the death penalty in SA because of apostasy or because she wants to divorce her husband, it would be ridiculous to treat the guy who helped smuggle her out of harms way a terrorist or to prosecute him for human trafficking.

Now, the big question obviously is if the Saudis also pressed charges against the guy which were legitimate and didn't originate exclusively from their medieval sharia laws, laws which we don't share (yet...). I could even imagine that they had flooded the German authorities with charges against him to smear/discredit him, to the point that the German side began ignoring anything the Saudis told them about him. Which then became a deadly mistake once the dude started going completely off the rails.



I wonder how much of this has to do with the government being simply unable to keep up with the number of such complains or not having enough to action and actually do something. They've literally let in hundreds of thousands of potential perps. If this guy didn't commit a crime, can they simply arrest him based on some schizo tweets? Lets say those private citizen complaints did make it to some counter-terrorism unit, again what are they arresting and charging him with? Do they keep permanent surveillance on him since they don't have enough to arrest or what?

Not asking this to absolve the gov't obviously they fucked up, but at the same time when Germany has let in millions of Muslims from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, from plenty of terrorist hot spots, it becomes a herculean task to prevent shit like this IMO.

This is 100% a big part of the issue. German security services had to admit years ago, I think it was in 2017 or 18, that they don't come even close to having the required manpower to stake out all the islamist high-risk individuals they know of.

But like I've said before: this case right here is even more complicated than that since the perp had already been in the country since 2006 and, at least at one point, was competent and stable enough to get a job as a psychatrist in a state-run facility. So by the looks of it, this was not a deranged wacko since the beginning, it was someone who once checked all the boxes of a well-integrated migrant and then, years later, began radicalizing and going insane.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 22 2024 01:49am
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Dec 22 2024 12:40pm
I didn't say he was a dissident, i said just because they consider someone a criminal doesn't always mean it's true, and that's one of the primary reasons the Germans or other western countries don't always extradite to those shitholes or take what they say with a grain of salt. Because they are inherently oppressive and will slap bs trumped up crimes half the time on people they want to shut up.


You have provided zero evidence for the claim that the German government was driven by "atheist ideology". :rolleyes: Our societies in the West value religious and personal freedom, so if a girl faces the death penalty in SA because of apostasy or because she wants to divorce her husband, it would be ridiculous to treat the guy who helped smuggle her out of harms way a terrorist or to prosecute him for human trafficking.

Now, the big question obviously is if the Saudis also pressed charges against the guy which were legitimate and didn't originate exclusively from their medieval sharia laws, laws which we don't share (yet...). I could even imagine that they had flooded the German authorities with charges against him to smear/discredit him, to the point that the German side began ignoring anything the Saudis told them about him. Which then became a deadly mistake once the dude started going completely off the rails.




This is 100% a big part of the issue. German security services had to admit years ago, I think it was in 2017 or 18, that they don't come even close to having the required manpower to stake out all the islamist high-risk individuals they know of.

But like I've said before: this case right here is even more complicated than that since the perp had already been in the country since 2006 and, at least at one point, was competent and stable enough to get a job as a psychatrist in a state-run facility. So by the looks of it, this was not a deranged wacko since the beginning, it was someone who once checked all the boxes of a well-integrated migrant and then, years later, began radicalizing and going insane.


You guys are missing the point that this guy shouldn't have been in Germany in the first place. Western countries are not some garbage can to absorb all the world's wretched population that may or may not be persecuted. Why give them the benefit of the doubt? It's not our business how a foreign, sovereign I may add, country prosecutes its criminals.

You are both engaging in a phenomenon that is now known as suicidal empathy. It's an affliction of the mind. You have no obligation to care for the entire world, and neither does any nation. You knew they were snakes when you let them in!

With respect to atheist ideology: did you not see his X posts? See no evil?

This post was edited by El1te on Dec 22 2024 12:44pm
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Dec 25 2024 07:49pm
You guys are missing the point that this guy shouldn't have been in Germany in the first place. Western countries are not some garbage can to absorb all the world's wretched population that may or may not be persecuted. Why give them the benefit of the doubt? It's not our business how a foreign, sovereign I may add, country prosecutes its criminals.

You are both engaging in a phenomenon that is now known as suicidal empathy. It's an affliction of the mind. You have no obligation to care for the entire world, and neither does any nation. You knew they were snakes when you let them in!

With respect to atheist ideology: did you not see his X posts? See no evil?


Again: this dude was let in at some point in 2006, he did not come with the more recent ""refugee""-wave since 2015.



Should this guy have been taken in to begin with? Imho no. I reject any kind poverty migration and want migration from countries with shithole cultures to be limited to extremely few cases with extraordinary merit. Which most definitely didn't apply in his case.

Once the decision was made to give this guy permanent residency, should we have extradited him to Saudi Arabia based on trumped-up charges or sharia law, although he had done nothing which violated Germany's laws or mores? Imho also no. I want my country to protect all members of its society from bogus prosecution by foreign entities.



We really have to distinguish between the question of how members of society should be treated, and who should be given the opportunity to become a member of our society. Handling the former with legal and logical consistency is necessary, even when mistake are made with regard to the latter.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 25 2024 07:51pm
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Jan 1 2025 02:14pm
Apparently the guy was born and raised in Texas as a US citizen. Probably an FBI job, even had ISIS sticker on the car (so on the nose). Our government thinks we are retarded.
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