d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Science, Technology & Nature >
Poll > Why Did We Evolve The Capacity To Dream?
1239Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
  Guests cannot view or vote in polls. Please register or login.
Member
Posts: 43,761
Joined: Aug 27 2009
Gold: 63,142.89
Sep 3 2013 10:58pm
Quote
A theory to explain dreams, or any human behavior for that matter, needs to take into account evolution, Barrett said . . . "My opinion is that, evolution just isn't wasteful, that when things evolve for one purpose, that generally they don't continue throughout time to have only that purpose, but anything else that may be useful about them gets refined," she said in a telephone interview with LiveScience prior to the convention.

She also noted that REM sleep has been around for quite some time, since mammals evolved some 220 million years ago. "The longer something has existed during evolutionary history, the likelier it is to have other functions overlaid on it," she said . . . [In her research,] she found examples of almost every type of problem being solved in a dream, from the mathematical to the artistic. But many were related to problems that required individuals to visualize something in his or her mind, such as an inventor picturing a new device.

The other major category of problems solved in dreams included "ones where the conventional wisdom is just wrong about how to approach the problem," Barrett said. Dreams might have evolved to be particularly good at allowing us to work out puzzles that fall into those two categories, she said.

"I think that dreams and REM sleep have probably further evolved to be useful for really as many of the things that our thinking is useful for," Barrett said. "It's just extra thinking time, so potentially any problem can get solved during it, but it's thinking time in the state that's very visual and looser in associations, so we've evolved to use it especially to work on those kinds of problems."


That's one theory, I'm curious to see any other ideas as to why a brain capable of dreaming was an evolutionarily beneficial trait. If you don't believe in Evolution, feel free to post why you think the intelligent creator assigned us this trait.
Member
Posts: 24,533
Joined: Sep 26 2006
Gold: 42.00
Sep 3 2013 11:06pm
Dreaming is simply over active thinking. It's why drinking caffeine or consuming other stimulants will make your dreams different. People dream about pointless stuff all the time; sex, food, adventures. It's only because they are thinking about it so frequently throughout the day. It's all subconscious thought, I don't think it really has anything to do with evolutionary benefit.
Member
Posts: 43,761
Joined: Aug 27 2009
Gold: 63,142.89
Sep 3 2013 11:14pm
Quote (1messdkid @ Sep 4 2013 01:06am)
Dreaming is simply over active thinking. It's why drinking caffeine or consuming other stimulants will make your dreams different. People dream about pointless stuff all the time; sex, food, adventures. It's only because they are thinking about it so frequently throughout the day. It's all subconscious thought, I don't think it really has anything to do with evolutionary benefit.


Ok let's say your statement is true.

When we ask the question "Why do organisms on Earth have the traits they have?" the answer according to Darwin's model was that those traits are the result of natural selection and the evolutionary process. Now, if we are saying that some traits (such as dreaming) are not the result of natural selection, then that means Darwin's model is an incomplete answer to the question. The new answer would be "Organisms on Earth have the traits they have either because the trait conveyed an evolutionary benefit OR for no reason at all".

You agree with me on this? If organisms have things that offered no evolutionary benefit, then we have to consider that possibility for any trait we examine in any organism (rather than claiming that life forms are the way they are because of evolution), right?

This post was edited by kayeto on Sep 3 2013 11:14pm
Member
Posts: 24,533
Joined: Sep 26 2006
Gold: 42.00
Sep 3 2013 11:16pm
Yeah, continue...
Member
Posts: 10,812
Joined: Oct 15 2009
Gold: Locked
Warn: 20%
Sep 3 2013 11:22pm
Quote (kayeto @ Sep 3 2013 10:14pm)
Ok let's say your statement is true.

When we ask the question "Why do organisms on Earth have the traits they have?" the answer according to Darwin's model was that those traits are the result of natural selection and the evolutionary process. Now, if we are saying that some traits (such as dreaming) are not the result of natural selection, then that means Darwin's model is an incomplete answer to the question.
This is the problem right here. Darwin's model (or the more modern versions of evolutionary biology) were never intended to answer the question you posed.

This post was edited by Azrad on Sep 3 2013 11:23pm
Member
Posts: 4,265
Joined: Jul 20 2007
Gold: 20,765.73
Sep 4 2013 12:56am
The main function that we've uncovered for dreaming is helping with the formation of long-term memory. Seems pretty useful.

Quote (kayeto @ Sep 4 2013 01:14am)
Ok let's say your statement is true.

When we ask the question "Why do organisms on Earth have the traits they have?" the answer according to Darwin's model was that those traits are the result of natural selection and the evolutionary process. Now, if we are saying that some traits (such as dreaming) are not the result of natural selection, then that means Darwin's model is an incomplete answer to the question. The new answer would be "Organisms on Earth have the traits they have either because the trait conveyed an evolutionary benefit OR for no reason at all".

You agree with me on this? If organisms have things that offered no evolutionary benefit, then we have to consider that possibility for any trait we examine in any organism (rather than claiming that life forms are the way they are because of evolution), right?


This is an incomplete evaluation of natural selection. Variations in traits are initially caused by random mutation. Those mutated traits are then selected for based on the conditions of their environment. The answer is actually: "Organisms on Earth have the traits they have at first for no reason at all, AND almost always because the trait eventually conferred an evolutionary benefit."
Member
Posts: 13,578
Joined: Jul 27 2010
Gold: 2,285.00
Sep 4 2013 04:10am
Quote (kayeto @ Sep 4 2013 01:14am)
Ok let's say your statement is true.

When we ask the question "Why do organisms on Earth have the traits they have?" the answer according to Darwin's model was that those traits are the result of natural selection and the evolutionary process. Now, if we are saying that some traits (such as dreaming) are not the result of natural selection, then that means Darwin's model is an incomplete answer to the question. The new answer would be "Organisms on Earth have the traits they have either because the trait conveyed an evolutionary benefit OR for no reason at all".

You agree with me on this? If organisms have things that offered no evolutionary benefit, then we have to consider that possibility for any trait we examine in any organism (rather than claiming that life forms are the way they are because of evolution), right?

Not every trait an organism has necessarily offers an evolutionary benefit. For example, plants are green. Being green has absolutely no benefit to plants. However, the chlorophyl that causes them to be green gives them an astounding benefit. You can have two traits that are linked, so that one ends up getting dragged along with the other.

Perhaps dreaming and higher level brain functions (i.e. cognitive thought) are two such linked traits. It could be the brain's way of using up inactive cycles, sort of like how Windows computers have a System Idle process that acts as a placeholder when nothing else is actively consuming CPU time.
Member
Posts: 13,829
Joined: Apr 15 2006
Gold: 367.00
Sep 4 2013 10:06am
Isn't it basically just to keep your brain active?

This post was edited by bigbrd222 on Sep 4 2013 10:12am
Member
Posts: 36,389
Joined: Jul 18 2008
Gold: 3,192.00
Sep 4 2013 10:22am
I haven't researched this in any way but I'm going to say it's a side effect of increased cognitive ability.
Member
Posts: 15,114
Joined: Nov 18 2005
Gold: 89,176.00
Sep 4 2013 11:31am
It's just a side effect of REM sleep... and we need REM sleep to live.
Go Back To Science, Technology & Nature Topic List
1239Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll