In our sleep we produce truckloads of this compound called Dimethyltryptamine (otherwise shortened to "DMT") in our brains. In fact, we produce so much of DMT that the brain automatically shuts out most of what happened during the trip. That's why you don't remember your dreams that well. This drug is the most potent known to man and it's in a lot of mammal's pineal glands and in a lot of plants. Now, this psychedelic is responsible for our dreams and when you take some orally or whatever, you go fucking nuts. It's the most eye-opening, perception changing experience you can pretty much have. It's like LSD with more space and aliens. I'm pretty sure some of you would be familiar with it. It's the reason why our dreams are so trippy; we make up whole complete interactive environments, whole fantasy worlds. The problem is, we don't remember it that well.
Anyways, my thought is that seeing as we're producing so much in our sleep, if we are conscious during it, such as in Lucid Dreaming or astral projection, you would be experiencing something of a DMT trip, right? And a very strong one at that. If we get so good at being conscious in dreams and remembering what happens, then imagine the consequences. DMT is a drug that can literally change your perception of life, it can change your moral values and the very way you think. I'm not hyping here, taking DMT is like transporting your whole entire body into another dimension. A dimension that could represent the depths of inner space, dimensions that you could not simply conjure up in your head. What's particularly interesting is how drugs from the tryptamine family is capable of not only expanding our metaphysical and conscious states, but also our evolutionary path. We will be responsible of our own future evolution by opening up these untapped areas of the human brain. The whole spectrum of unique abilities of the human mind (self reflection, language, religion and things of that nature) is because of DMT occurring in our brains in our sleep and if we go as far to experiment with it, it's quite possible that we will be in control of what happens in terms of brain development. The possibilities are literally endless.
Any thoughts on this idea? The whole prospect is a big mystery, biologists don't even know why we even have this drug in our head. But it's very interesting to think about.

Here's a video of a mathematician talking about his experiences of DMT

This is wrong of course. The chemical may certainly cause one to experience states of mind that are difficult or even impossible to imagine, but these effects can be achieved with numerous psychadelics or even stimulation of the brain with electrodes. It sounds like DMT is an important chemical for neuroscientists to study, but don't make the mistake of attributing emerging avenues of neuroscientific discovery to new-age metaphysical garbage. It cheapens the beautiful and natural complexity of the human brain.

Edit: With regard to it's applications in lucid dreaming research, I'd be fascinated to read more.

This post was edited by sproknet on Dec 18 2011 12:57am

Being high on psychadelics when you're asleep is a lot different then when you're awake on them.

because when you're awake you're conscious so you're more likely to remember what happens.

Pretty much all I was trying to say. Your right, it's possible to achieve the same kind of effects from other psychedelics, DMT is just a potent example and it occurs naturally within our very own brain. Of course, it's not possible for a drug to transport us into different dimensions, but this one does do something to that effect (not physically, of course). The hallucinogenics of this modern age should be studied and experimented meticulously by neuroscientists. It's such a intriguing foggy area that's been largely unmapped for too long. Research into the effects of drugs and techniques such as lucid dreaming would open up a whole field of scientific opportunity to expand our consciousness, our self-awareness, our brain's evolution and so much more. I was just thinking about this whole lucid dreaming prospect and no one seems to have bothered looking into it which is a real shame. I mean, we are mentally capable of conjuring out of body experiences and making dream worlds and there isn't so much an institute that has looked into exactly why and if there's more to it than just vague spiritual beliefs.



Yeah it is a bit of a shame, nonetheless, we are capable of remembering what exactly happens when we're asleep through intentional lucid dreaming (even if it isn't to the same extent as reality). I know a couple people personally whom have experimented with lucid dreaming years at a time and say that they could remember dreams down to the smallest detail. I'm sure if there was research conducted on these concepts, there would be a number of efficient and scientific ways on how to record and remember dreams. Of course, this is all speculation but it sure as hell is fascinating.

This post was edited by pigletopeth on Dec 18 2011 01:33am

He gave it a name. But like he said... you cannot explain it into words.
This touched base with me.
Thank you for sharing this.
-This is coming from someone whom has never taken LSD.

This post was edited by xxspidersxx on Dec 18 2011 05:39am

He gave it a name-based-term. But like he said... you cannot explain it into words.
This "touched base" with me.
Thank you for sharing this.

My pleasure.

It's very difficult to get approval to research DMT. It's difficult to get approval to research schedule I drugs in general as their medical uses have already been rejected.

Neuroscientists do, in fact, research lucid dreaming. I read an article in which they utilized lucid dreamers to figure out where in the brain movements take place while dreaming. It turned out to mirror waking movements.

I will comment that my lucid dreams have never resembled my DMT trips in the slightest. The geometry is too abstract (on DMT). High doses of mescaline, however, were fairly similar.

I like the mathematician's recount of his experiences. If memory serves correctly, he saw lots of strange geometric patterns and things like that. This indicates that the compound relies heavily on the user. Your experience reflects your disposition towards the drug and more generally the way you think. This is why I don't really like the whole spirit molecule thing. Some of them are a bit nutty, and generally remind me of a religion citing universal experiences and claiming insight into death and an afterlife. I might be mixing up the spirit molecule with a bunch of other mojo I've read though.

If you're so interested in DMT, though, you should research native South American tribal/death rituals. A lot of them performed Ayahuasca rituals (oral DMT with a MAOI). You can actually still find churches I think. I know I've read about some, but those might have been outdated articles. Anyway, it's purely speculation, but I imagine the native American death rituals will reflect aspects of a DMT experience.

This post was edited by Derkaderk on Dec 18 2011 11:42am

[1] I understand why it is a controleld substance because of recreational use, but it can serve as a great research model on a scale of things. It's the same with LSD. Hoffmann developed techniques to ingest an entirely non physically addictive and almost harmless chemical (if it weren't for the bad trips and psychoactive disorders) that could have potentially been used for neurologists to observe. And now it's hard to assess it on a critical level because of laws and regulations that shouldn't even apply to the scientists that want to research it.
[2] Yeah there a number of neurologists that do, however not to the extent that it should be or with what I have proposed in this thread. In the coming years, I'm sure things of this nature will become a big topic I just wish that governments would stop being such jackasses with biased laws.
[3] That's fascinating, actually. I've never tried mescaline but from what I've heard, it's a kind-of-spiritual trip and a bit like marijuana. Do you think you could elaborate on your experiences with lucid dreaming and how it compares to a trip you might have with mescaline?
[4] Yeah I liked it to. It's interesting how as a mathematician, the drug attributed itself to his mathematical thought process through those abstract geometric shapes. You're right with the whole "spirit molecule" nonsense you see popping up in videos and webpages. They get a bit ahead of themselves by linking DMT with i don't know, flying leprecauns or something.
[5] I've come across a few people whom have tried Ayahuasca and they say they simply loved it. Thanks for the mention of it, I almost forgot the South American traditions regarding DMT. That will be very interesting to look into.
I appreciate the feedback

well, if you've ever had a lucid dream, you know you basically can just focus on imagining something, and watch it manifest itself. That's what I saw in mescaline that I didn't see in DMT. DMT hits you like a freight train and sort of has its own agenda. Mescaline beckons you to interject your own creativity (as does LSD in a lot of ways). I remember even on my first, low-dose mescaline experience, there was a time when I could close my eyes and just let my imagination run wild and little abstract images would appear to perfectly reflect what I was thinking on. It was way more concrete than it sounds. I know you can already just close your eyes and imagine something, but it was actually there. Anyway, the higher the doses, the dreamier it gets. There's a certain feeling - not just a body load - I associate with dreaming. I can imagine it, but I can't quite put it into words. It's like an eerie fog almost.

Another comment on the manifesting of your imagination: I should say objects rarely pop in and out of existence. Like on any trip, in a dream, you work with your surroundings. There's some subconsciousness involved in dreaming which lays a foundation beyond your control. So you can conjure up things, but it's not like you dissociate from reality and conjure up everything. You can, but it's always been a fleeting, temporary aspect of the trip that usually comes around a really heavy peak. It's like dozing off, and then catching yourself in a dream, so you snap awake. It's mostly just watching things that are already there morph into whatever you expect them to morph into. Obviously this is a lot more powerful in dreams because in a dream you're wandering around your own imagination.

As for the scheduling, I wasn't saying they shouldn't research it. I was saying it's incredibly difficult to acquire grants and permission to research it. I agree wholeheartedly that psychedelic drugs provide tremendous insight into neurology, but unfortunately a little bit of curiosity into how we think isn't good enough for the federal government.

Also, I recommend reading Peyote experiences on Erowid. I, personally, have never done peyote (I've done San Pedro), but the experiences involve profound visions. These visions remind me of dreams. A sort of out of body dissociation which can happen under the right circumstances if you're open to it.

Anyway, I can talk a lot about mescaline. It's one of my favorite experiences.