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Dec 8 2011 09:08am
If evolution is the case, then why have creatures evolved to die?
Single cell organisms don't die.
Where in the evolutionary process did death happen?
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Dec 8 2011 09:09am
Single celled organisms DO die. Death is one of the factors that drives evolution.
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Dec 8 2011 09:14am
Quote (bentherdonethat @ 8 Dec 2011 10:09)
Single celled organisms DO die. Death is one of the factors that drives evolution.



I must be misinforned. How do you know they die? By die I don't mean run out of nutrient and lose the ability to metabolicly grow. But I mean, actually expire and decompose.

This post was edited by MaliceMizer on Dec 8 2011 09:15am
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Dec 8 2011 09:17am
Quote (MaliceMizer @ Dec 8 2011 09:14am)
I must be misinforned. How do you know they die? By die I don't mean run out of nutrient and lose the ability to metabolicly grow. But I mean, actually expire and decompose.


expire and decompose? not sure what you are looking for here, but i believe in some cases when the population gets high enough they secrete substances that cause apoptosis, or programmed cell death.

/e or other cases if environment changes drastically enough, its cell wall can break

This post was edited by cialda on Dec 8 2011 09:19am
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Dec 8 2011 09:21am
Quote (cialda @ 8 Dec 2011 10:17)
expire and decompose? not sure what you are looking for here, but i believe in some cases when the population gets high enough they secrete substances that cause apoptosis, or programmed cell death.

/e or other cases if environment changes drastically enough and it lyses.


Well like there are creatures like sturgeon, that no one knows if they can die of old age, because they never have as long as humans have been writing.
If these creatures are so evolved why do we die.

I like that theory. Is there any evidence of such secretion? Any way to measure it in highly populated areas?

This post was edited by MaliceMizer on Dec 8 2011 09:23am
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Dec 8 2011 09:23am
Quote (MaliceMizer @ Dec 8 2011 09:21am)
Well like there are creatures like sturgeon, that no one knows if they can die of old age, because they never have as long as humans have been writing.
If these creatures are so evolved why do we die.



we die because of telomere loss and telomerases i believe is the current theory (if by humans you mean from old age).

as for sturgeons im sure there is some proof that they die of old age. although i dont really know much about sturgeons.

This post was edited by cialda on Dec 8 2011 09:24am
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Dec 8 2011 12:39pm
I thought it was caused by free radicals, states that organisms age because cells accumulate free radical damage over time. A free radical is any atom or molecule that has a single unpaired electron in an outer shell. While a few free radicals such as melanin are not chemically reactive, most biologically-relevant free radicals are highly reactive. For most biological structures, free radical damage is closely associated with oxidative damage. Antioxidants are reducing agents, and limit oxidative damage to biological structures by passivating free radicals.
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Dec 8 2011 01:05pm
Quote (undertow85 @ Dec 8 2011 09:39pm)
I thought it was caused by free radicals, states that organisms age because cells accumulate free radical damage over time. A free radical is any atom or molecule that has a single unpaired electron in an outer shell. While a few free radicals such as melanin are not chemically reactive, most biologically-relevant free radicals are highly reactive. For most biological structures, free radical damage is closely associated with oxidative damage. Antioxidants are reducing agents, and limit oxidative damage to biological structures by passivating free radicals.


This + the telomere thing
iirc, oxygen is the main source of oxidising radicals

but I'm not sure about sturgeons

This post was edited by Ocen on Dec 8 2011 01:05pm
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Dec 8 2011 02:20pm
Quote (undertow85 @ 8 Dec 2011 13:39)
I thought it was caused by free radicals, states that organisms age because cells accumulate free radical damage over time. A free radical is any atom or molecule that has a single unpaired electron in an outer shell. While a few free radicals such as melanin are not chemically reactive, most biologically-relevant free radicals are highly reactive. For most biological structures, free radical damage is closely associated with oxidative damage. Antioxidants are reducing agents, and limit oxidative damage to biological structures by passivating free radicals.


:huh:
let me try and decode this. (I only have a GED)

atom has an extra electron
that free electron causes damage to cell type structures (kinda like rust?)
but living organisms suppress the extra electrons & replace damaged cells, (that is growth?)

help! D;
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Dec 8 2011 02:43pm
Quote (MaliceMizer @ Dec 8 2011 11:20pm)
:huh:
let me try and decode this. (I only have a GED)

atom has an extra electron
that free electron causes damage to cell type structures (kinda like rust?)
but living organisms suppress the extra electrons & replace damaged cells, (that is growth?)

help! D;


yes

living organisms suppress the extra electrons (=radicals) using antioxidants (this is one reason why not getting enough of these can significantly increase chance to develop an illness), but, nothing can be done perfectly in practice. So the damage accumulates. But in humans the telomere thing sounds more plausible. Humans also don't replace damaged brain cells at a rate enough to sustain them forever.

This post was edited by Ocen on Dec 8 2011 02:44pm
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