Ouch, you know its not easy always being on the defensive and getting attacked, and, honestly I see that you think your scenario discredits electric universe, I have been studying electric universe on and off for almost a year now, and I have not seen anyone saying that positive and negative charges cause gravity, because that would not even work for a 2 body situation like earth and moon, the moon would just crash straight into earth,
and about the steinmetz math, i know it sounds hypocritical, but he really is an exception because not only did he simplify massive equations that spanned pages, down to equations that I can solve, but he also proved himself by the things he invented, when I rail against mathematics, I'm talking about these guys that come up with equations for stuff like black holes where there is no data or observation to go on, and its just purely theory crafted out of einsteins field equations
and yes there is 4 electrical charges if you are working with his equations, I can't say if that reflects reality or not, but it worked for him, and he was a genius compared to me, as far as showing you this, it might be difficult, I'm looking for a free online copy of his book but dunno if I will find it and be able to link

anyways, can we wrap this up please, I think we can come to an agreement that
1) you hate electric universe theory
and thats ok, I just personally think you misunderstand it, and find it sad that you dont explore it more
2) I disagree with quantum and big bang and relativity, and also that I like the EU, i just think it still needs time to grow

and yes its hard to get points across in a forum, it would be much easier if we were having a discussion in real life, but do you have any other last points, or things you would like me to answer?
if not, good luck to you, and try not to be so harsh in the future to free thinking

This post was edited by Skydaddy on Feb 26 2014 05:38pm

I found it!!, here read this book, this one will explain everything I was attempting to say poorly about the 4 charges
steinmetz was a genius!
https://archive.org/details/elementarylectur00steirich

This post was edited by Skydaddy on Feb 26 2014 05:44pm

I'm not the author of the argument. It is an ancient argument.

Wow. This is what the electric universe theory is all about. The the kinematics of the universe are governed by the electromagnetic force and not gravity. But you previously disagreed with this! Also it would work perfectly for a 2 body system. That fact that you can't see this means you don't know any kinematics as well, which is a freshman level topic (and often taught in high-school). It is becoming very clear that are so far in over your head, you can not tell what is bullshit and what is not. It is unfortuante you have been bamboozled by this garbage, and that now you feel you need to spread the garbage to others here on this forum.

Have you ever actually read any of his work, I have. I don't remember any references to 4 different charges. You claim you've been studying it for a year, and you claim it is the truth, certainly you must have a reference for it and are not just making shit up...

I don't hate it, its just worthless. It does not match observation. What I hate is when people go around trying to bamboozle other people with theories from the trash can of history.

How am I suppose to explore it when you can't give me a reference? Why should I explore something that clearly can't reproduce Newton's work?

give me a page number....

hmm i flipped through it, and it might be the wrong book, lol, when I get home I'll dig through my pile and find it, but I'm pretty sure I read it in one of steinmetz

ok, so I figured out what I was meaning to say, so one of his equations he lists the charge of the magnetic field as + and - and the charge of the dielectric field as + and -, that's where i got the idea of having 4 charges, so I guess you could have ++,--,+-,-+, but I dont really understand it to be honest, I really need to get more organized and dive in a bit deeper, but I'm just going to shut up now before I make myself look more stupid

but I just have one question for you Azrad, since you seem a lot more smart than you lead on at first, ha ha, I'm just curious where you stand in cosmology and all that, I mean, what idea of the universe to you support or agree with most, just out of curiosity

This post was edited by Skydaddy on Feb 26 2014 10:17pm

This question is telling. It isn't a question about which model I "support" or "agree with". It is about which model agrees with observation the best. Today the ΛCDM model matches observation really well, so I'll go with that. Tomorrow there will probably be observations that don't match the theory and it will have to be modified, and when that happens, I'll go with that.

There is no known magnetic charges. I know you like to trash on modern theories and pretend like they are stupid, so I'll give you a tidbit you might like: most modern theories predict the existence of magnetic charges, and yet none have ever been found. Yes the standard models have problems like this, but your "electric universe" sure as shit ain't one of them:

Regardless, introducing a few fictional charges can not get you out of the electric universe problem. If you have n bodies that all attract either other, you need n linearly independent charges to accomplish this with the electromagnetic force. The milky way contains about 400 billion stars that all attract each other. To explain that with electromagnetism you will need 400 billion opposite charges. Even with the 2 fictional charges you postulated you are still 399,999,999,996 charges short. I really hope you are starting to see why this theory is a dead as fried chicken. It is difficult to believe that any amount of tweaking or fleshing out is ever going to fix this problem. You're betting on a horse that died before the race even started, hoping it will do better in the 1/2 half of the race...

maybe you will find this interesting:

hmm, thats fine i suppose, i'm not a fan of big bangs myself i just dont think the observations match, as my earlier statements show but thats irrelevant



you know, i dont have anything invested in the electric universe theory, i have just been fascinated by it lately, and dont think its as trash as you say, even though i know it has some problems, and i see what your saying, but i think its a misunderstanding, i can't really speak for it and i might be way off when i say this, but I don't think the EU is trying to say that just traditional electromagnetism causes the attraction of gravity, but i think they use the aether or something along those lines to explain it, even though i've been studying it for a while now, i still dont know enough to make any valid arguments, as these posts have proven, lol

you don't have anything invested but you have been studying it for a while - which way are you jumping?

and at the bolded:

ancients were fascinated by thunder and lightning, they came up with zeus or similar gods - fascinating, isn't it?

which level of your physics studies are you at? if i might ask