And you've only got faith that your religion is actually correct so that your particular god can be true to His word. Same argument applies to every single religion. You believe something good will come out of it just the same as every other supernatural religion or cult believes that something good will come out of their belief system.


Finding that Biblical morality is fairly abhorrent in many places led me to believe that the Bible was flawed so that it wasn't entirely correct. Once you stop taking the whole thing to be literally true, you start to question which parts actually are, and once you do that you can't rely on the Bible as evidence for proof of the Abrahamic God's existence any more than you can take any of the other countless religious texts are proof of their deities' existences.


So a father is afraid for his son who is about to die. A grandfather is afraid of the afterlife and doesn't want to die. You yourself are essentially admitting that fear is a primary motivator for turning to religion, since through religion you can eliminate the fear of the afterlife. Didn't you just say earlier that that WASN'T the case? So no. I won't turn to "the Lord" on my death bed. Not without some actual evidence

Give me a reason to believe in the soul and that will give me a reason to potentially believe in an afterlife. Where is it? What does it consist of? Is it just our conscious mind, our collection of memories, and our emotions? And is it eternal?


Only responding to one of three things? Guess I "shut you out" on two out of three, then. That's pretty good. As for this one, read your Bible. Mark 3:28-29
28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter,
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

They will never be forgiven. Ask for forgiveness all they want, but it will never be granted. Besides, from Romans 10:9 we know that simply asking for forgiveness is not enough since nearly everyone will ask for forgiveness and to be spared when they get caught doing something wrong. You must also believe in your heart in the resurrection of Christ Jesus. And what is it that you need in order to believe something with no evidence? Faith! That gift from God that is not always given.

But as for me, I don't believe in all this business, so I don't believe that there are any sins that need to be forgiven. You call me proud? Look at yourself. Through your pride and ego you have been able to throw away any requirement of evidence in order to justify your beliefs because you already decided that they were correct long ago, and nothing will ever change your mind. It's not good to be closed-minded, my friend.

1st Paragraph: Well naturally I see many flaws in other Religions. I'll use the example of Catholics as always. My Grandma is a Catholic and I tell you what she worries about every single little thing. She prays to God to bring her mother out of Hell every single day for the last 40 years. One day she forgot to do it and she cried because that may have been the last time she had to do it in order to bring her mother out of Hell and into Heaven. She goes to Church every Sunday in order to earn her salvation. She does a lot of things because she HAS to. I go to Church and go to bible study because I WANT to, huge difference.

Want to know something that Catholics believe? You know how their focus is on Mary? They believe that they need to pray to Mary to tell Jesus to grant them their prayers. So you imagine Jesus ruling over the world and Mary comes along and whispers into Jesus's ear "Hey Jesus, can you make this happen for this person? Yeah, cool thanks!" Now that does not seem logical at all. Christianity makes sense to me. I don't see what doesn't make sense about it tbh.

2nd Paragraph: So you are telling me you didn't understand a few bible stories and you didn't go on to ask somebody to help explain it for you? Do you still remember which parts of the bible made you question you faith and give it up altogether? If you can I'd be more than glad to explain the story or stories for you.

3rd Paragraph: You are right. We should fear God because of what he is capable of. He can destroy the Earth right now with the snap of his fingers. Not only do we fear God but we also love him. If we are scared of someone we do not want to get on their bad side. We first learn to fear God because of what he can do but after that we also come to love him and build a relationship with him. We should also fear of what would happen to us if we are judged negatively and are condemned to Hell.

You ask for evidence and you are granted evidence but you are spiritually blinded. Look around and see the creation and life all around you. The way things are and how the first Humans were brought about. What do you think was the first Humans ever did and how were they made without a God? You can make life the scientific way of meteors smashing into the Earth while they carry minerals and the Earth gets formed then and plants sprout but how did Humans get created and all the life along with it? The answer lies in the Bible. Only an almighty God could do such a thing and that is all the evidence you need.

ITT: america vs europe?

well clearly you took my words out of context or misunderstood.
those who blasphemy God are choosing to do that, and obviously acknowledge that they wont be saved and DONT WANT to be forgiven.
im not talking about those who knowingly do it. its obvious they are lost.

I never said i was close minded, i dont believe in the Christian God, i only defend it because most people who claim themselves of intellect dont know the meaning of faith.
See you have failed in the fact that you revealed too much of yourself, you truly know nothing about me...

What do you mean? Are you saying nobody has ever blasphemed and then repented for it and was saved? I thought the idea was that you sin, but later realize how wrong you were and ask for forgiveness. What you said seems completely contradictory to what most faiths preach.

There are probably Catholics that you describe like that, sure, but I've never met any who actually believe you need to pray to Mary. The Catholics whom I know myself do not pray to saints and only confess in private without any priest whatsoever. They are indistinguishable from other Christians I have met except that they go to a Catholic church because they like the extra ceremony/incense etc because they say it helps them feel closer to God. I think it's funny that you say it doesn't sound logical to pray to Mary when it's illogical to think you have a telepathic connection to Jesus Himself. Remember, faith is outside the bounds of logic, so no method of prayer is any more logical than any other.


Really it's the entirety of the Old Testament. There's just so much that is not literally true that it's impossible to use it as a basis for the foundation of the New Testament (Genesis flood? Young earth? C'mon.) However if you really want to, you can start with explaining the story of how God sent a pair of bears to maul 42 children after a few of them made fun of Elisha's baldness, 2 Kings 2:23-25. That seems like overkill, especially innocents were punished as a result of the actions of a few kids.


Lack of evidence to explain something is no reason to believe in a supernatural cause. There is no default answer to any question that is automatically correct in the absence of evidence for some other answer. Even if abiogenesis was 100% disproven and if the Big Bang was 100% disproven, that would in no way give any additional credibility to Intelligent Design. They would still be as unfounded as they were before, and still in dire need of evidence to back up those claims. It would have just as much evidence for the hypothesis that the universe sprang into creation as the result of a calamitous flatulent event brought on by a spicy meal eaten by an impossibly large Viking.


Oh my. You see, you'd be right, except I have seen other posts of yours on this forum.

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=56586593&f=125&p=378252147
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=56581727&f=125&p=378252775
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=56226219&f=125&p=375704424

You just got caught in a bald-faced lie. You should really be more careful about denying your faith just to try to save face in a discussion. After all, I've heard that that's unforgivable. You wouldn't want to take any chances, now, would you?


Exactly. That part of his post makes no sense to me either. We're all born atheists (babies lack the belief in a god since they lack the capacity to believe anything), so then if Tummy is right in applying that verse to simply denying the existence of God, then there would be a whole lot of people completely ineligible to ever be saved no matter what their choices.

its not a lie, i believe in what i believe in.
i agree in the outline of the christian faith with a different twist that is what i believe to be the right way to believe.
im not taking any chances lol.. once again you dont know me or how i operate or my thought process.

Jesus Christ literally is the Christian God and you just said you don't believe in him, even though in other posts you say you do. You can't have it both ways.

jesus christ is part of the holy tinnity.
i never said i didnt believe in jesus christ lol.
ok here let me explain to clear up all confusion, a summary of my belief system.

I believe Jesus was a holy man whom died for our sins, for an overall greater purpose and to cleanse mankind of sin. and be a pathway to forgiveness.
I believe that the holy spirit is real and an entity and the father is the exact same thing as the holy spirit, but in a spiritish form. the heavenly father in my eyes is some sort of uknown entity.
that if He could be explain he wouldnt be God. you understand?
Jesus' exact words is that the Holy Spirit is "among us", after Jesus left and went to Heaven (which i believe to be symbolic for a place in the heart, and hell being a place in the mind)
I believe there is a heavenly father, but i dont believe it as the typical every sunday christian believes it, i think it is something much more deep than going to church, and those who have seek the truth
on their own have the same ideas and opinions i do. i have spoken with many many others about this in real life. even pastors and other church heads.
im really sorry i cant explain it typing it out well. but let me rephrase my past comment on i dont believe the christian God. I believe in the God that christians believe in, and you can comment on my ego.
But i have a different view of beliefs, using the same scriptures they do without contradictory.
I believe that science and faith are 2 coexisting entities that one day will have to be merged to solve the ultimate question of purpose for all objects.
I believe in most science as factual. But some questions just cannot be answer without taking a step of faith.
For instance, the things that are explainable ghosts and other supernatural occurrences have to, in my views be explained with God. There are some things, that science will never be able to put into fundamentals and human terms.
and for that there has to be the answer of God.

Im sorry for any confusion, mockery anything. I know my feeble attempt at an explanation probably failed. I cant type it out without speaking it and giving the proper emotions needed you understand?

So you're what, Muslim?