Quote (Toothfariy @ Dec 18 2010 02:54am)

LOL do u even know what this argument is about? The alternative is organic farming you dolt; the way we have been farming ever since our species began doing agriculture.

And believe it or not, i dont drive all that much. If i can walk, i usually do it. But that isnt even a good analogy at all. For one, i am the one contraling the car, not Ford. And also driving a car doesnt even touch the detrimental effects from GM foods. A lot of things are risky behavior, even sleeping in your house, it could light on fire and you would be crushed etc. Those things are acute traumas which you dont have very much contral over. GM foods is a choice you make every single time you eat one.

I'm sorry but i cannot accept someone telling me that we should eat things that will destroy our bodies. You have hanging on to the belief that GM foods are the only way to solve world hunger, and they have not even come close to solving it. And if you really want to fix world hunger, lets talk about what starvation actually is. "A state of extreme hunger resulting from lack of essential nutrients over a prolonged period"

These foods have been shown to contain much less vital nutrients. So infact we are only starving everyone instead. And if GM foods take over then thats our prolonged period.
GM foods are completely ridiculous. It is a clear example of how we are not responsible enough to use technology like this.

And im sorry if personal health is unrealistic for you, but the organic movement is taking big wind and fast. Maybe one day people will realize that mother nature isnt stupid

Quote (AEtheric @ Dec 18 2010 02:19am)

I'm going to have to take sides with toothfairy on this one. The FDA is not always right, and it is always good to see two sides of the story.

Quote (Toothfariy @ Dec 17 2010 11:15pm)

Maybe u can explain in furthur detail about that? I have never heard someone say that before; but u konw crops have their own defenses already in nature...

GM food is not nessessary. The growing seasons exist for more than one reason. Growing the same thing in the same place all year long can and will deplete the soil; and  Also the effects on health are staggering; and should not be ignored in this discussion. Even if GM food could yield enough to rest all of the worlds famine, what is the point if the food is going to kill us as fast as a famine would anyway? Sure starvation would be faster, but the point is, even if we get enough GM food for the entire world to eat and we were able to distribute it to everyone, is it really better for everyone; or just the company who has a patent on the seeds to grow them?

GM foods have not yet come close to solving the world hunger problem, and neither has organic food. The problem is not the amount of food, but rather our ability to distrubute it. GM foods are bad news for everyone; i would hope you have enough respect for yourself to take care of your own body.

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Researchers from the University of Michigan found that in developed countries, yields were almost equal on organic and conventional farms. In developing countries, food production could double or triple using organic methods

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According to the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) of the United Nations, gains in food production since 1950 have kept ahead of population growth in every region except Africa.6 The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) found in a 1997 study that 78% of all malnourished children under five in the developing world live in countries with food surpluses

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A comprehensive review of a large number of comparison studies of grain and soybean production conduct by six Midwestern universities since 1978 found that in all of these studies organic production was equivalent to, and in many cases better than, conventional (Welsh, 1999). Organic systems had higher yields than conventional systems which featured continuous crop production (no rotations) and equal or lower yields in conventional systems that included crop rotations. In the drier climates such as the Great Plains, organic systems had higher yields, as they tend to be better during droughts than conventional systems. In one such study in South Dakota for the period 1986-1992, the average yields of soybeans were 29.6 bushels/acre and 28.6 bushels/acre in the organic and conventional systems respectively. In the same study, average spring wheat yields were 41.5 bushels/acre and 39.5 bushels/acre in the organic and conventional systems respectively....

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Organic farming systems have proven that they can prevent crop loss to pests without any synthetic pesticides. They are able to maintain high yields, comparable to conventional agriculture without any of the associated external costs to society. Furthermore, organic and agroecological farming methods continually increase soil fertility and prevent loss of topsoil to erosion, while conventional methods have the opposite effect. In the end, only a conversion to organic farming will allow us to maintain and even increase current crop yields.

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Another argument that critics are making is that organic food is more expensive, therefore, low-income families and people in the third world would not be able to afford it. While it is true that organic food has a price premium, this price difference is the result of higher demand for organic products, and does not necessarily reflect a higher cost of production. According to the Wallace Institute report mentioned earlier, organic production of grains and soybeans in the mid-west was more profitable than conventional in at least half the cases studied, even without factoring the higher prices that organic soybeans bring in the market (sometimes more than twice as much as conventional soybeans).

Quote (AEtheric @ 18 Dec 2010 15:40)

Toothfairy, you should make a comprehensive thread outlining many of the advantages of organic farming and organic food. I would definitely read it if you did so, no matter how long it is.

Quote (Toothfariy @ Dec 18 2010 04:13pm)

Sigh... if the only "benefit" that everyone is hinging on here is more production; then please read the studies i cite below. You will clearly see how this is not a benefit at all

I know no one is actually going to read any of these, but i guess its worth a try.



http://ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases/story.php?id=5936



There is not even close to food scarcity has there hasnt been since long before GM foods and industrial farming hit the market.
http://www.foodfirst.org/node/239






I would also like to point out that organic food does not get any subsidy from the goverment. Only conventional farming does

http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/~christos/articles/cv%5Forganic%5Ffarming.html

http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/organic/
http://www.responsibletechnology.org/gmo-basics/faqs

I have done my research long ago. These "benefits" for GM foods and industrial farming do not exist. Read any one of the things i posted above.
I guess im still the uneducated arrogant one...

Quote (Psycho- @ 18 Dec 2010 19:05)

how much more does it cost to farm like that?

has anyone ever actually tried it for an extended period of time?(not a year or two and for a small population).

until someone can show crap other than theories im not interested in your side because obviously if your side was credible farmers would be doing it already.

Quote (Toothfariy @ Dec 18 2010 08:19pm)

LOL

we have been farming like that for THOUSANDS of years. Where do u think things like crop rotation came from?
If you actually read any of the things i cited, you would realize these arent theories...
And also, farmers are doing it. The organic movement is exploding right now. Organic farmers are popping up everywhere.

Just think about it; raising cows to eat grass, not grain, saves the farmer TONS of money. Grass grows everywhere, there is no shortage of grass. So cow eat all the grass in a field, then they poop all over it, which gives the field fertilization. So the cow is a lawn mower and a fertilizer. The farmer doesnt have to buy the grain, the shipping company doesnt have to ship it to his facility, and he never has to clean his cow pins because he doesnt have any. Idc who you are, that is a profit machine.

Your faith in what the FDA has told you mirrors the kind of ignorance ive seen in religous debates; unless you can present an actual case for GM foods, then just leave. Its obvious you didnt read any of those things i posted. So please, if you would like to have a discussion about it, feel free to give those a read through. Otherwise you can go troll somewhere else.

Quote (Psycho- @ 18 Dec 2010 20:05)

it worked in the past because it wasn't close to the needs of the world today. natural processes not only leave plants vulnerable but they also require nature to be on your side and something as simple as an early frost can destroy naturally farmed crops. you really think its reasonable to leave our produce to chance and not take any non-natural precautions to assure that the supply doesn't dry up because of something we could of prevented?

you keep saying its capable of replacing current farming methods yet you have no actual proof of that. organic farmers keep popping up because of people willing to pay 5x the price for things with the word organic on them. its a business model that will die once too many people get involved and have to cut prices way below operating cost just to sell the stuff.

link something that shows in practice that organic farming is superior than advanced farming and ill read it but im not going to put stock in something that only works on paper like so many other idealist plans.