Quote (pure619 @ Jul 25 2011 10:49am)

I've been kinda wondering if maybe Jesus was just a magician of that time period. Cause to be honest there's not much proof what so ever who he was just a book is all. The bible was made a long time ago so of course many people would believe it. If the bible was made yesterday would you believe what you read from it? It just kinda got me thinking. Cause magician's have been around for century's. Maybe he was just one of the first?

Quote (Torm1 @ Jul 25 2011 03:46pm)

He was sent here to make a way for us.

Humans have sinned, are fallen beings, and fall short of the glory of a Holy and Righteous God.

Quote (bentherdonethat @ Jul 19 2011 08:49pm)

If you take the Bible as evidence that Christianity is correct, then you have to take the Qur'an as evidence that Islam is correct, and you have to take the Vedas as evidence that Hinduism is correct, and you have to take the Satanic Bible as evidence that Satanism is correct, and you have to take the writings of Confucius as evidence that Confucianism is correct, and you have to take the vinayas and the  sutras as evidence that Buddhism is correct.

Quote (HighschoolTurd @ Jul 25 2011 02:55pm)

LOL Qur'an as islam is correct? you kidding me right?

Bible has nothing to do with the qur'ran as far as Im concerned

Quote (HighschoolTurd @ Jul 25 2011 05:55pm)

LOL Qur'an as islam is correct? you kidding me right?

Bible has nothing to do with the qur'ran as far as Im concerned

Quote (Torm1 @ 25 Jul 2011 13:46)

He was sent here to make a way for us.

Humans have sinned, are fallen beings, and fall short of the glory of a Holy and Righteous God.

Quote (bentherdonethat @ Jul 26 2011 01:42am)

All right, back from that wedding and ready to continue.


Christianity has perpetuated for 2000 years because the Church had incredible power and wealth. Entire populations bowed down to it and not even Kings of nations would dare speak a word against it. And the reason for that? Fear. Fear of being excommunicated and being sent to a hell that they were assured existed yet was strangely lacking in the Old Testament. But hey, since almost everyone was illiterate the Church could tell them whatever they wanted and they would just nod along, and because of this, the idea of Hell which was invented by Dante (who was under scrutiny for his Comedia, but the Church eventually decided it was scripturally sound) has propagated through our culture across generations. Fear is an extremely powerful tool; history shows us that to be true time and time again.


So you asked and YOU received, but when I asked for faith I did not receive. So this means either you received faith as some sort of placebo effect (you thought it would work and so it did) or that your God does not give faith to all people who sincerely ask for it, and so your God plays favorites and is directly responsible for damning people whom He decides are not worthy of faith and thus are not able to believe in Jesus and all that lore. As for testing faith, I'm surprised you didn't mention James 1. That's the single best example for the idea of "your faith will be tested" and that trials will bring you closer to God. However, I do not know of any Biblical justification for the idea that Satan tempts individuals. I can only think of the story where Satan tempts Jesus in the desert. However, I can think of a very strong verse to argue AGAINST the idea that Satan is tempting people. James 1:13-15 states

13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.
15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Those lines clearly state that their own desires are what cause  them to sin and no mention of Satan is made at all. So what makes me want to go to a porn site? My own desire to see T&A. What makes me want to drink a beer? My own desires, but you know what stops me from drinking a beer before driving? The fact that it's stupid as hell to do so.


Sounds like a cop-out if I've ever seen one. It took you 16 years from early childhood because as a very young child you aren't able to comprehend complex Biblical scriptures. For many religious people I know, Veggie Tales is the primary way of teaching their children about religion because they simply don't understand it all right from the get-go. After all, we're all born atheists and most of us are taught (indoctrinated) to believe one religion or another. Meanwhile, I didn't hear anything about religion until I was 17 and started believing then and there. My sincere questioning and doubt didn't start until I was 22, so really my "2 years" is closer to 7.

So the journey is hard and long, but there is no real justification for believing there is any reward in the end at all. Life is what we have, and it's far more likely that when we die it's Game Over. Sure that idea might be unsettling for some people, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

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Once you understand how sinful humans really are and how far short we fall before God's glory, you'd understand how much grace God has and how much he still loves us all. That belief is not based on fear by any means but first comes the repentance and the sorrow upon the realization

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However a man whose faith crumbles in the end was never solid faith or true faith to begin with.

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First and foremost I thought that 17 to 22 was 5 years and not 7

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No matter what age you die, if you use the gift of faith that God has given you, you would have peace of mind so you will not fear death

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If somebody is convinced that there is nothing after death and they are confronted by it, you think they will cower and whimper?

Quote (bentherdonethat @ Jul 25 2011 10:11pm)

Step 1: Destroy a person's self-worth and make them feel like scum.
Step 2: Convince that person that you still love them in spite of the fact that they're so worthless.
Step 3: Punish disobedience with over-whelming force.

Sounds an awful lot like how any cult gains and maintains followers. It also sounds like how battered women are convinced that their boyfriends and husbands really do want what's best for them.


That's exactly what I was trying to say. Without solid/true faith, you can't believe, and like you said, God is the one who grants faith. If you don't have true faith to begin with, then that means God didn't grant it to you and so God does not wish for you to believe and be saved. Now perhaps God gives some people faith and they misapply it and subscribe to other religions, but for people without a religion, it's clear that they have received no faith.


I was a bit unclear here. I started questioning at 22 and came out as an atheist a few months ago when I was 24. So that's 7 years where I would have said I was a Christian.


God has given me no faith, otherwise it wouldn't have crumbled and I wouldn't lack belief in a god.


If someone is convinced there is nothing after death and therefore thinks life is all we have, then they won't cower or whimper in fear of "what's next" but they will grieve for being unable to continue living. Life is infinitely precious because it's so rare and because we only exist for such a brief moment in the cosmic history of the universe.