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Jul 5 2010 02:10am
Quote (MyAccountIsOsterHues @ Jun 27 2010 12:17pm)
good points.
Though meat has great nutrition as well including some of the bvitamins that are sometimes deficient in vegetarians.
Nevertheless its a very individual thing. For example some bodybuilders eat pounds of meat and 20+ eggs a day. Many people couldn't live that way for long, though some can reach ''normal'' age with such an excessive meat consumption. Its very individual how much meat you can take. In general I haven't found great side effects of meat when eaten by healthy individuals max. twice a week. Also if you do some research about longelivity, many places that include a high average age are decent meat eaters. Ofc they are not only eating meat like inuits or eskimos which have a very low life expectancy.

Also to stress the individual thing again, it is a total different thing if someone eats meet who is practicing regular sports and someone who doesn't!


Thanks. One can get the exact same things, and more, that one gets with a omnivorous diet in a vegetaran diet. My main point is that vegetarianism can be, and is (when done correctly) superior to an meat-eating diet, morally, environmentally, and biologically.

I've done a little research on longeivty, but not enough to come to a definitive answer on what diet is optimal for longevity. Some of the longest lived people in the world are vegetarian seventh-day-adventists.
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Jul 5 2010 03:26am
Bumpt.
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Jul 6 2010 03:11am
Vegetarians make me want to eat more meat or walk with my deaf brother to a taste of india.
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Jul 12 2010 06:23am
most vegetarians I have ever seen look sickly and aids infested. They are scurvy, unhealthy, weak immune systems, constantly at the doctor, and put their kids lives at risk.


EAT MORE RED MEAT. SAVE YOUR OWN LIFE.
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Jul 14 2010 07:06pm
Quote (Phils_Porsche @ May 25 2010 07:20pm)
there is no case for vegetarianism, you stupid hippie


Fuck you caught up bitch. Eat more McDonalds.
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Jul 15 2010 05:47pm
Quote (Djsenn @ Jul 6 2010 09:11am)
Vegetarians make me want to eat more meat or walk with my deaf brother to a taste of india.


LOL
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Jul 15 2010 07:39pm
Quote (AEtheric @ May 25 2010 08:29pm)
If you're interested in vegetarianism in general, or are interested in the adverse effects (health and environmental) of eating meat, this is a good source of information:


Position of the American Dietetic Association on Vegetarianism source: http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/2009_ADA_position_paper.pdf
"Appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes."

"Vegetarian diets are often associated with a number of health advantages, including lower blood cholesterol levels, lower risk of heart disease, lower blood pressure levels, and lower risk of hypertension and type 2 diabetes. Vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index (BMI) and
lower overall  cancer rates. Vegetarian diets tend to be lower in saturated fat and cholesterol, and have higher levels of dietary fiber, magnesium and potassium, vitamins C and E, folate, carotenoids, flavonoids, and other phytochemicals. These nutritional differences may explain some of
the health advantages of those following a varied, balanced vegetarian diet."


Wikipedia on Meat's Adverse Effects source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat#Issues
Consumption of large quantities of meat in a diet has certain adverse effects [59] which can include: obesity, heart disease, and constipation [60]. The large amounts of annual per person meat consumption in society (38 kg/capita-global[61] and 82 kg/capita-U.S.[62]) is a deciding factor in personal health.[63][64][65] The common misconception of "I can't eat unless there is meat" is largely due to cultural attitudes and how one is raised to think about food[66]. In recent years, health concerns have been raised about the consumption of meat causing adverse mutations in DNA.[67] In particular, red meat and processed meat were found to be associated with higher risk of cancers of the lung, esophagus, liver, and colon, among others.[67] Another study found an increase risk of pancreatic cancer for red meat and pork.[68]

"Meat has been correlated to increased risk of heart disease. The risks of heart disease are three times greater for 45-64 year old men who eat meat daily, versus those who did not eat meat, according to one survey.[78]. However, a major Harvard University study[79] in 2010 involving over one million people who ate meat found that only processed meat had an adverse risk in relation to coronary heart disease. The study suggests that eating 50g (less than 2oz) of processed meat per day increases risk of coronary heart disease by 42%, and diabetes by 19%. Equivalent levels of fat, including saturated fats, in unprocessed meat (even when eating twice as much per day) did not show any deleterious effects, leading the researchers to suggest that "differences in salt and preservatives, rather than fats, might explain the higher risk of heart disease and diabetes seen with processed meats, but not with unprocessed red meats."


Livestrock's long shadow (An environmental study on livestock) source: http://www.earthsave.org/environment/water.htm
The assessment was based on the most recent and complete data available, taking into account direct impacts, along with the impacts of feed crop agriculture required for livestock production. The report states that the livestock sector is one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global. The findings of this report suggest that it should be a major policy focus when dealing with problems of land degradation, climate change and air pollution, water shortage and water pollution, and loss of biodiversity.

Based on this report, senior U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization official Dr. Henning Steinfeld stated that the meat industry is “one of the most significant contributors to today’s most serious environmental problems" and that "urgent action is required to remedy the situation."[2]

"that livestock are responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, a bigger share than that of transport."


The Efficiency of eating meat
"It was not only Diet For A New America that publicized this particular statement of Dr. Borgstrom’s. The tenth anniversary edition of Diet For A Small Planet by Frances Moore Lappe states, on page 76, “According to food geographer Georg Borgstrom, to produce a 1-pound steak requires 2,500 gallons of water.”

"n 1978, Herb Schulbach (Soil and Water Specialist, University of California Agricultural Extension), along with livestock farm advisors Tom Aldrich, Richard E. Johnson, and Ken Mueller, published extensive research on water use in California agriculture in the journal Soil and Water (no. 38, fall 1978). They concluded that the average pound of beef produced in California required 5,214 gallons of water."

"Currently distributed by the Water Education Foundation, the study concludes that each pound of California beef requires 2,464 gallons of water — a number virtually identical to the 2,500 gallon figure I use in Diet For A New America."

Source: http://www.earthsave.org/environment/water.htm

"It takes 16 pounds of grain to make one pound of beef.(293) That's 94% more land. And 94% more pesticides. All told, livestock eat 70% of all the grain we produce.(292)" -

"More chickens are killed in the U.S. every year than there are people in the world (7.6 billion chickens vs. 6 billion people).(240)"

Source: John Robbins, The Food Revolution: How Your Diet Can Help Save Your Life and Our World


Look at bolded. those points are flawed and imply that all people that eat meat have unbalanced/unhealthy diets. Not true. Well balanced diets that include meat and vegetable > pure vegetarian.


Livestock leads to environmental damage/meat not efficient. If we were all to become vegetarian
1. What do we do with all the livestock? They are the problem after all. Do we kill them?
2. Where will we get the food needed to replace meat?
The increased demand for this food source would probably be more devastating to the environment that the current one inflicted by feed crop/livestock. More wild land would be destroyed for agriculture. More water for plants. More pesticides and fertilizers. More damage to the soil. more damage to the environment. = you are probably worse than before.

You have no case at all.

This post was edited by Lights_Warrior on Jul 15 2010 07:40pm
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Jul 16 2010 03:52am
Quote (AEtheric @ Jul 15 2010 11:47pm)
LOL


3:
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Jul 16 2010 11:14am
Quote (Lights_Warrior @ Jul 16 2010 01:39am)
Look at bolded. those points are flawed and imply that all people that eat meat have unbalanced/unhealthy diets. Not true. Well balanced diets that include meat and vegetable > pure vegetarian.


Livestock leads to environmental damage/meat not efficient. If we were all to become vegetarian
1. What do we do with all the livestock? They are the problem after all. Do we kill them?
2. Where will we get the food needed to replace meat? 
The increased demand for this food source would probably be more devastating to the environment that the current one inflicted by feed crop/livestock. More wild land would be destroyed for agriculture. More water for plants. More pesticides and fertilizers. More damage to the soil. more damage to the environment. = you are probably worse than before.

You have no case at all.


Nice non-existent argument. You only bolded one part which says that only those problems are caused by eating large quantities of meat. You didn't read the rest of what it said where it doesn't take eating large quantities of meat to increase the risk of cancers, heart disease, etc...

1. You simply don't breed more livestock. I don't expect everyone to become vegetarian all of a sudden, anyways.
2. It's easy to find alternatives to meat. Look it up yourself if you're interested. Soy is a good example of one.
Livestock is one of the top major contributors to environmental damage. We are feeding cows that are incredibly inefficient when it comes to selling them for their meat. If we got rid of all the cows and then gave all that food to humans it would actually do less damage, because it wouldn't also have to go to the cows and do even more environmental damage than what was already done having to grow the plants themselves. We could feed far more humans with that food than we could feed cows, because cows consume so much more.

I have a case, you didn't even address the whole thing. You just said a few irrelevant things and then acted like you destroyed my case. Well that's not the case, my friend.
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Jul 16 2010 12:03pm
veggies r chemically n biologically fucked w/ ne ways. that article was tl didnt fucking read and its prolly a waste of time but eating meat + vegs >
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