to suck dick and get yo dick sucked.

This post was edited by TraXile on Jan 13 2010 08:54pm

"Of course we can. I don't see any reason for claiming there to be any god whatsoever in the first place...
But if you claim that a god had to create us then who created that god? You can't simply claim that your god is immune to regress. How can an infinitely complex god always be there, and yet when people claim that the universe might have come about by chance (Anthropic principle) you say it is impossible.

Think about it for a second. The chance that an infinitely complex god was somehow always there is much more improbable than subscribing to the Anthropic principle. You may think you are keeping it simple but you are definitely not, all you are doing is creating a logical fallacy to maintain the illusion of simplicity, e.g. God was always there.. he created us, isnt that simple? No it is not because you do not explain how that god came into existence nor do you try. Saying he was always there is not an explanation of anything. Just as you claim god was always there i can claim that the universe was always here, or that humans were always here... But that wouldn't make it true."

If something created God then something had to create that thing that created God, the same would hold true for the Universe. Something had to create the Big Bang and something would have had to create that thing that made the Big Bang and it would go on forever, creating an infinite chain. But this chain had to have a beginning because it certainly does have an end. God was the very first thing that came into existence because he is almighty and all knowing. There is nothing that can create a God like that. The very first thing the Bible mentions is God, it does not say that God was created by anything. God is all powerful that has the ability to create anything he wants, The Universe and humans don't have that kind of power. Also somebody had to write all the laws of physics. God made the world as it is today, it just can't happen by chance.

"Being omnipotent and omniscient has nothing to do with disproving that God exists, he can be whatever you want him to be but he is still God."

"No it doesn't, But i was under the impression that we were discussing the "christian god", who just happens to be described as both omnipotent and omniscient in the bible (Which you referenced).
"He can be whatever you want him to be..": That is simply impossible, unless of course you do admit that he is just a figment of the imagination.
Also if we are not discussing the god of your bible anymore, then perhaps you could enlighten me and define "god" for me. So that i can discuss him succesfully without assuming anything."

I was saying that you can call God whatever you want but in the end he is still God. Humans can claim that he can't be omnipotent and omniscient at the same time because of some kind of reason. It is just like asking the question "Can God create a rock so big that even he cannot lift it?" Just remember that the last time somebody tried to trick Jesus with that kind of question his first reply was "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." [(John 8:7) King James Version]

"When someone threatens you, you are given a choice too... Choice 1. Do what i say and live. Choice 2. Suffer and die... How can you still claim it is not a threat? It matters not what the promised outcome will be, it doesn't change the fact that it IS a threat."

God is saying "Here I am you can worship me if you want to." A threat is when someone gives you no other choice i.e. pointing a gun at your head and telling you to hand over the cash. There is a HUGE difference with the two. Option 1 you are given a free choice. Option 2 you are given no other option at all.

"So the people caused the flood? I think not. What you are saying is not so different to when a terrorist blows up a building, and then claims that they deserved it and brought it upon themselves. Who is the killer here? the terrorist or the people who supposedly needed to be punished... Whether someone deserves it or not does not change who the murderer is.
Oh and not to mention all of the instances where god commanded that certain people be killed (Babies too.. as i mentioned earlier)."

God is the creator of the Universe and he is the only one who is able to judge others. He saw that everybody was shaking their fists and turned their backs on the creator of the world. You would want to start all over again if you were given the chance. Only one person still loved God and his family was saved because the man represents the entire family. What would have happened if people didn't turn their backs on God and worshipped him? The flood wouldn't have come in the first place. It is because of OUR wrongdoings that the world is as bad as it is today.

"If he loves us all the same, then why are some of us sufferring everyday, fighting just to live another day. While others enjoy a luxurious life just because they happen to be born in a more developed part of the world.
As for helping people, that "morality" has nothing to do with god. It can be explained pretty simply by evolution (I can explain it if you wish, otherwise i will leave it out for now)"

What would happen if we didn't need supplies from other parts of the world and no other country needed our help? We wouldn't interact with eachother, we would all turn against eachother and become independant. Nobody would want to travel overseas to other parts of a different country, Products from overseas wouldn't be in your country so you wouldn't have some of the items that you have in your household. If people need help then we offer a show of hands and go out to help them in donations, becoming missionaries, giving them shelter etc.

"Of course you can see "god" as a pink unicorn, How can you know that this fictional being is not smarter than us? You obviously can't because one doesn't exist. It is fictional just like the "god" you claim to be real.
We can assign any number of properties to this pink unicorn that will make it seem as if it were a god. But of course this is just imagination. As is this "god" being."

Where did the idea of a unicorn come from in the first place? Did you ever see any historical moments when somebody saw a unicorn or have you only ever seen such creatures in books and computer games? Where did the idea of pink come from? Why not purple or black or blue or white? The pink unicorn makes absolutely no sense at all whatsoever and seeing it as a God just pushes it over the line way too much. Our God is real because we actually have a book that gives hundreds of different examples of what God can do. Just because you, yourself have never seen him that doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. You have never seen a dodo because they are extinct but you know that they once did exist on this Earth.

"Regretting doing something IS a mistake. He was sorry for creating us: "for it repenteth me that I have made them.". I mean it is in the bible, you can't simply claim he was sorry for being so kind to us when it specifically says that he regretted making us in the first place == Mistake. Oh and lets for one second entertain the claim that he was sorry for being so kind to us, that is also a mistake, for an all powerful god he should know the perfect amount ot kindness to give without causing corruption."

You are on the assumption that regretting doing something = mistake. What if you help somebody when they are in dire need and they then backstab you later on, was you helping them a mistake when you first met them? You had no idea what they were going to do after they no longer needed your help. You are sorry you ever helped this guy because of the way they repay you. You didn't make a mistake by helping them, they made the mistake by backstabbing you and shaking their fist at you even after all the things that you have done for them.

"Of course not. What prevents me from believing in god is two little things called Rationality and Logic.
However if you claim that you believe in god because we are so perfect and every part of our body was designed with a purpose. I will of course refute that. So don't try to say it doesn't matter as soon as your argument goes out the window."

So when something makes no sense you throw it out the window and refuse to believe or listen? You don't take the time to go out and investigate what this all means? If you are studying chemistry and you don't understand a few things do you just give up and refuse to never do chemistry again when you can find out why the things are the way that they are? You can't give up that easily, there is an answer behind every single story in the bible and a meaning behind every verse. I personally go to bible study every Wednesday night so we can discuss what some things may mean in the bible. Just because I don't understand doesn't mean that I don't need to investigate, listen and believe and have faith that it has happened.

"If something created God then something had to create that thing that created God, the same would hold true for the Universe. Something had to create the Big Bang and something would have had to create that thing that made the Big Bang and it would go on forever, creating an infinite chain. But this chain had to have a beginning because it certainly does have an end. God was the very first thing that came into existence because he is almighty and all knowing. There is nothing that can create a God like that. The very first thing the Bible mentions is God, it does not say that God was created by anything. God is all powerful that has the ability to create anything he wants, The Universe and humans don't have that kind of power. Also somebody had to write all the laws of physics. God made the world as it is today, it just can't happen by chance."

Something didn't have to create the big bang. Just 'cause we can't explain it yet does not mean we need to invent a "god" to fill in the gap of something we don't yet know. Your claims about god are again nothing but assumptions based on nothing but your personal belief.

"I was saying that you can call God whatever you want but in the end he is still God. Humans can claim that he can't be omnipotent and omniscient at the same time because of some kind of reason. It is just like asking the question "Can God create a rock so big that even he cannot lift it?" Just remember that the last time somebody tried to trick Jesus with that kind of question his first reply was "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." [(John 8:7) King James Version]"

Humans are the ones who gave him those properties in the first place. Of course they can be challenged and shown that those two properties cannot coexist in a single being.

"God is saying "Here I am you can worship me if you want to." A threat is when someone gives you no other choice i.e. pointing a gun at your head and telling you to hand over the cash. There is a HUGE difference with the two. Option 1 you are given a free choice. Option 2 you are given no other option at all."

God is saying "Here i am you can worship me if you want to, but if you don't you will burn in hell for eternity". This is no different than someone saying "Do what i say or i will kill you". They do not need to have a gun for it to be a threat. So it is EXACTLY the same.

"God is the creator of the Universe and he is the only one who is able to judge others. He saw that everybody was shaking their fists and turned their backs on the creator of the world. You would want to start all over again if you were given the chance. Only one person still loved God and his family was saved because the man represents the entire family. What would have happened if people didn't turn their backs on God and worshipped him? The flood wouldn't have come in the first place. It is because of OUR wrongdoings that the world is as bad as it is today."

None of that changes the fact that someone is a murdered. Whether they judged right or wrong, someone who kills others is a murdered. You can't say the people murdered themselves when they didn't. They might have done something to trigger the start of the murder but god was the murderer.

"What would happen if we didn't need supplies from other parts of the world and no other country needed our help? We wouldn't interact with eachother, we would all turn against eachother and become independant. Nobody would want to travel overseas to other parts of a different country, Products from overseas wouldn't be in your country so you wouldn't have some of the items that you have in your household. If people need help then we offer a show of hands and go out to help them in donations, becoming missionaries, giving them shelter etc."

Bullshit. How is that being fair to everyone? You are saying god allows millions of people to suffer just so that you can feel good helping them... wtf. And why exactly would we not interact with each other?... Trading between countries is not the same as giving aid. If everyone had equal opportunities then there would simply be more trade.

"Where did the idea of a unicorn come from in the first place? Did you ever see any historical moments when somebody saw a unicorn or have you only ever seen such creatures in books and computer games? Where did the idea of pink come from? Why not purple or black or blue or white? The pink unicorn makes absolutely no sense at all whatsoever and seeing it as a God just pushes it over the line way too much. Our God is real because we actually have a book that gives hundreds of different examples of what God can do. Just because you, yourself have never seen him that doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. You have never seen a dodo becausethey are extinct but you know that they once did exist on this Earth."

The pink unicorn is merely a metaphor, as i said before, you can replace it with any number of imaginary characters you can conjure up. It makes no difference.
Are you really going to try to justify your belief using an old book? ... Especially when the book is wrong on SO MANY things. We have a book that gives a detailed explanation of what wizards can do (Harry potter) it is much more well written than the bible and is way more detailed. Does that mean harry potter is really a wizard? and hogwarts exists?.. I think not.
As for the dodo bird example, i know they exist because it has been documented by many independent biologists and credible sources and is a fact. Unlike the bible which is a work of fiction. Not backed up by ANY historic records from that time.

"You are on the assumption that regretting doing something = mistake. What if you help somebody when they are in dire need and they then backstab you later on, was you helping them a mistake when you first met them? You had no idea what they were going to do after they no longer needed your help. You are sorry you ever helped this guy because of the way they repay you. You didn't make a mistake by helping them, they made the mistake by backstabbing you and shaking their fist at you even after all the things that you have done for them."

Regretting something is making a mistake. If you know what the right option is for everything then you will never regret anything because whatever you choose will be the right choice. Should god not have seen what would happen? I thought he was all powerful and all knowing...

"So when something makes no sense you throw it out the window and refuse to believe or listen? You don't take the time to go out and investigate what this all means? If you are studying chemistry and you don't understand a few things do you just give up and refuse to never do chemistry again when you can find out why the things are the way that they are? You can't give up that easily, there is an answer behind every single story in the bible and a meaning behind every verse. I personally go to bible study every Wednesday night so we can discuss what some things may mean in the bible. Just because I don't understand doesn't mean that I don't need to investigate, listen and believe and have faith that it has happened."

Of course not, I do listen. I am always open to changing my beliefs (I welcome it). I did take the time to go out and investigate and the conclusion ive come to is that there is no god. I have yet to find someone that can prove otherwise and change my mind. Your example is very bad for this situation. A better one would be if you were studying phsycics and after a while of testing with no positive feedback you realise that the whole thing is bullshit and that there is nor has ever been absolutely any evidence to support it, and you decide to quit. Leaving yourself open to new evidence all the time. But none ever comes.

This post was edited by emkoirl on Jan 13 2010 10:08pm

"Something didn't have to create the big bang. Just 'cause we can't explain it yet does not mean we need to invent a "god" to fill in the gap of something we don't yet know. Your claims about god are again nothing but assumptions based on nothing but your personal belief."

What do you mean 'invent' a God? We have proof of how the world was made in the beginning of Genesis. We didn't 'invent' a God to fill whatever gap you are talking about. It is a whole lot more simpler by saying that God always was there rather than saying that something had to create God and something had to create that thing that created God because an infinite chain makes no sense at all. Believe it or not it IS a whole lot more simpler if you accept that God is the alpha and the omega.

"Humans are the ones who gave him those properties in the first place. Of course they can be challenged and shown that those two properties cannot coexist in a single being."

I've learned that the world is not Governed by the way that you think. Just because something does not make sense to you personally, that does not mean that whatever doesn't make sense doesn't mean it isn't true. You merely just don't understand it.

"God is saying "Here i am you can worship me if you want to, but if you don't you will burn in hell for eternity". This is no different than someone saying "Do what i say or i will kill you". They do not need to have a gun for it to be a threat. So it is EXACTLY the same."

You make it sound so harsh though. Where does it say that he threatens us with hellfire & brimstone if we don't accept him (Jesus) into our lives? We do gain more with God in our lives. It is a win/win situation. Call it whatever you want to but you would be a fool not to take it because I would know for a fact that you would not want to go to Hell.

"None of that changes the fact that someone is a murdered. Whether they judged right or wrong, someone who kills others is a murdered. You can't say the people murdered themselves when they didn't. They might have done something to trigger the start of the murder but god was the murderer."

Every single person in this entire world deserves death. God is just when he sends people to kill those who don't listen to his word, or he does it himself. Whatever method he does of doing it, he did the right thing. God cannot do anything wrong, even if he destroys this entire Earth for seemingly no reason. Even if he did that, he is right when he does it. He created this world and we play by his rules. Now you can't really put the blame on God because the blame game never, ever works. It is our fault that people get murdered and we brought this upon ourselves.

"*censored*. How is that being fair to everyone? You are saying god allows millions of people to suffer just so that you can feel good helping them... wtf. And why exactly would we not interact with each other?... Trading between countries is not the same as giving aid. If everyone had equal opportunities then there would simply be more trade."

All sunshine and no rain makes a desert. If you take a person who has been beat down their entire lives and has had to work for everything that they've gotten, they'll be able to shrug off the few terrible things that happen. E.g. Someones mother dies, the hardened person would cry obviously but he would know that life does go on and he'd get over it by 3 months - 2 years tops. But if you had everything handed to you on a silver platter and have had life easy, your mother dies again but this time you'll never, ever get over it. 70 years on you would still be struggling with life because of all the bad things that happen and you would still be mourning the loss of your mother.

"The pink unicorn is merely a metaphor, as i said before, you can replace it with any number of imaginary characters you can conjure up. It makes no difference.
Are you really going to try to justify your belief using an old book? ... Especially when the book is wrong on SO MANY things. We have a book that gives a detailed explanation of what wizards can do (Harry potter) it is much more well written than the bible and is way more detailed. Does that mean harry potter is really a wizard? and hogwarts exists?.. I think not.
As for the dodo bird example, i know they exist because it has been documented by many independent biologists and credible sources and is a fact. Unlike the bible which is a work of fiction. Not backed up by ANY historic records from that time."

What is the old book wrong on? Name 10 things that this book is wrong on SO MANY things please. There are many different versions of this book as opposed to Harry Potter. There are versions that are very simple to the hardest version to make it very complex (King James Version) As for the biologists and credible sources, I've seen them dig up Jesus's tombs on the television and they found the Jerusalem walls. They've found really, really old towns that are there in the bible so there is also living proof to back it up.

"Regretting something is making a mistake. If you know what the right option is for everything then you will never regret anything because whatever you choose will be the right choice. Should god not have seen what would happen? I thought he was all powerful and all knowing..."

Regretting something is not necessarily making a mistake. No matter who those people were at that time (It could have been this race back then but in a different time period and those other people being us in the now time period) nothing would have changed. If YOU, YOURSELF were Adam in the Garden of Eden I can guaran-damn-tee that you would eaten the fruit off that tree the same way as Adam did. So knowing this, are you going to not give anybody a chance at all? Not create civilisation or create Life in the first place? God gives us free will and we are GIVEN the choice to obey him or not. He NEVER makes a mistake, even if he goes as far as letting Satan win he doesn't make a mistake. God brought some good out of every single bad situation, he gave a second chance to everyone is what he did. Most of us have taken advantage of that second chance. You love it when you stuff up, BUT you are given a second chance? Do you?

"Of course not, I do listen. I am always open to changing my beliefs (I welcome it). I did take the time to go out and investigate and the conclusion ive come to is that there is no god. I have yet to find someone that can prove otherwise and change my mind. Your example is very bad for this situation. A better one would be if you were studying phsycics and after a while of testing with no positive feedback you realise that the whole thing is *censored* and that there is nor has ever been absolutely any evidence to support it, and you decide to quit. Leaving yourself open to new evidence all the time. But none ever comes."

You are given evidence but you just don't know it yet. The evidence isn't just handed to you on a silver platter just because you ask for it. You need to go out and investigate and never give up. Believe it or not, you are given evidence but just not in the way that you expected it, so you don't believe it. The evidence can be in the form of a special certain Book that you know, if can be in the form of people spreading the good news, or it can even be through lifes circumstances with miracles. That is evidence but it is ALMOST ALWAYS dismissed as a coincidence. If people Pray and after they pray good things start to happen or their prayers are answered, it has happened too many times for it to be called a coincidence. I'm not just speaking for myself either, I've heard dozens of other people telling stories of when they had a friend who had a bad back and after they prayed to the Lord their back 'miraculously' healed and the doctor just couldn't believe it. He had no idea of how this could happen. There are some things you just can't dismiss or ignore.

This is the life we chose, the life we lead. And there is only one guarantee: None of us will see heaven.

"What do you mean 'invent' a God? We have proof of how the world was made in the beginning of Genesis. We didn't 'invent' a God to fill whatever gap you are talking about. It is a whole lot more simpler by saying that God always was there rather than saying that something had to create God and something had to create that thing that created God because an infinite chain makes no sense at all. Believe it or not it IS a whole lot more simpler if you accept that God is the alpha and the omega."

What proof?... Words from an old book? by that logic as i said already i have proof that harry potter the wizard really exists.. If you had proof of god everyone would believe it. you have NO proof whatsoever.
I am not one to accept something just because it will fill some gap of something i don't yet know. That is what science is there for... We don't just fill in the gaps with bullshit to make ourselves feel better, we go out and search for the real answer.

"I've learned that the world is not Governed by the way that you think. Just because something does not make sense to you personally, that does not mean that whatever doesn't make sense doesn't mean it isn't true. You merely just don't understand it."

This is not something i think personally. This is what rationality and logic dictates. What you believe is something you believe personally with absolutely no real evidence behind it.

"You make it sound so harsh though. Where does it say that he threatens us with hellfire & brimstone if we don't accept him (Jesus) into our lives? We do gain more with God in our lives. It is a win/win situation. Call it whatever you want to but you would be a fool not to take it because I would know for a fact that you would not want to go to Hell."

What do you mean where does it say? Do you not believe that non believers are going to hell?... No matter what the result of obeying someone is, a threat is still a threat. For example its like someone coming up to you and saying "Hey, come to my party tonight, if you don't i will burn you alive". Now that is a threat, even IF you going to the party means having a great time..

"Every single person in this entire world deserves death. God is just when he sends people to kill those who don't listen to his word, or he does it himself. Whatever method he does of doing it, he did the right thing. God cannot do anything wrong, even if he destroys this entire Earth for seemingly no reason. Even if he did that, he is right when he does it. He created this world and we play by his rules. Now you can't really put the blame on God because the blame game never, ever works. It is our fault that people get murdered and we brought this upon ourselves."

Wow.. Are you that brainwashed? That sounds nothing more than a psycho to me. As i have said no matter the reason or justification you may use, Someone who kills people is a murderer... And someone who kills people while claiming they deserve it is nothing more than a psycho killer.

:All sunshine and no rain makes a desert. If you take a person who has been beat down their entire lives and has had to work for everything that they've gotten, they'll be able to shrug off the few terrible things that happen. E.g. Someones mother dies, the hardened person would cry obviously but he would know that life does go on and he'd get over it by 3 months - 2 years tops. But if you had everything handed to you on a silver platter and have had life easy, your mother dies again but this time you'll never, ever get over it. 70 years on you would still be struggling with life because of all the bad things that happen and you would still be mourning the loss of your mother."

I really don't see what the point is you are trying to make. Where is the fairness of god when being born in a certain part of the world could mean that you die or get murdered before even reaching adulthood... while some people are born with all the luxuries in the world. There is nothing fair about that.

"What is the old book wrong on? Name 10 things that this book is wrong on SO MANY things please. There are many different versions of this book as opposed to Harry Potter. There are versions that are very simple to the hardest version to make it very complex (King James Version) As for the biologists and credible sources, I've seen them dig up Jesus's tombs on the television and they found the Jerusalem walls. They've found really, really old towns that are there in the bible so there is also living proof to back it up."

So your saying if someone copies the harry potter books (and changes a few things) you will believe it to be fact?... Not to mention that the different versions of the bible contradict each other.
You have seen them dig up jesus's tombs? If this were a fact it would have been published in a scientific journal or a history book. But does not pass the scientific method it is not published as historical fact.

"You are given evidence but you just don't know it yet. The evidence isn't just handed to you on a silver platter just because you ask for it. You need to go out and investigate and never give up. Believe it or not, you are given evidence but just not in the way that you expected it, so you don't believe it. The evidence can be in the form of a special certain Book that you know, if can be in the form of people spreading the good news, or it can even be through lifes circumstances with miracles. That is evidence but it is ALMOST ALWAYS dismissed as a coincidence. If people Pray and after they pray good things start to happen or their prayers are answered, it has happened too many times for it to be called a coincidence. I'm not just speaking for myself either, I've heard dozens of other people telling stories of when they had a friend who had a bad back and after they prayed to the Lord their back 'miraculously' healed and the doctor just couldn't believe it. He had no idea of how this could happen. There are some things you just can't dismiss or ignore."

Stories from people mean nothing. I understand how people tend to exxagerate. I have experienced this myself. My parents are religious and i have heard them tell stories that make it seem like god is real. But when i ask them simple rational questions about the story you an see it all break down. Millions of people praying everyday, and a few of them get what they want (even if it can be explained without god) they claim it is god... It is nothing more than coincidence.

I believe i have spent enough time discussing with you. All you are doing now is going in loops and trying to use stories and the bible to prove god. That to me is NOT proof of anything. That is no different than if I claimed that fairies were real and i pointed to some ancient book and a few rumours to prove it.. It is not proof.

"What proof?... Words from an old book? by that logic as i said already i have proof that harry potter the wizard really exists.. If you had proof of god everyone would believe it. you have NO proof whatsoever.
I am not one to accept something just because it will fill some gap of something i don't yet know. That is what science is there for... We don't just fill in the gaps with *censored* to make ourselves feel better, we go out and search for the real answer."

The Harry Potter book is written by one single person who had an idea thought up in her mind. The bible is a book written by many people and the book is based on faith. Either you believe it or you don't. Obviously you don't believe it. Now it is not my job to convert you, it is merely my job to let you know about the Lord and let you make your own decision as to whether or not you are going to listen to him or not.

"This is not something i think personally. This is what rationality and logic dictates. What you believe is something you believe personally with absolutely no real evidence behind it."

So just because you, personally, don't believe that there is a God does that mean that there is no God JUST BECAUSE you don't think there is? What is going to happen when you finally meet your creator and you find out that you were wrong this entire time?

"What do you mean where does it say? Do you not believe that non believers are going to hell?... No matter what the result of obeying someone is, a threat is still a threat. For example its like someone coming up to you and saying "Hey, come to my party tonight, if you don't i will burn you alive". Now that is a threat, even IF you going to the party means having a great time.."

You stand at a crossroads, are you going to go to hell or are you going to choose the righteous pathway to eternal life? I'd seriously consider thinking about which path you choose because there is N O T H I N G to look forward to in hell.

"Wow.. Are you that brainwashed? That sounds nothing more than a psycho to me. As i have said no matter the reason or justification you may use, Someone who kills people is a murderer... And someone who kills people while claiming they deserve it is nothing more than a psycho killer."

News Flash: Before Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree there was no such thing as death. There was no record of death right up until Cain murdered Abel. Now that couldn't have been possible without Adam and Eve eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge. God made death possible yes, what happens when you die? Some people do not fear death because they know that they are going to heaven, the ones that fear death are ones where they know that they are going to hell. Do you fear death or not?

"I really don't see what the point is you are trying to make. Where is the fairness of god when being born in a certain part of the world could mean that you die or get murdered before even reaching adulthood... while some people are born with all the luxuries in the world. There is nothing fair about that."

Is this all about being fair is it? Life isn't fair, people are racist. Some people do have it better than others, probably because the smarter people were on that side of the country and knew how to make the most of what they had. Also, are you putting the blame on God for all of this? I suspect that you blame God for everything that has happened up to this point.

"So your saying if someone copies the harry potter books (and changes a few things) you will believe it to be fact?... Not to mention that the different versions of the bible contradict each other.
You have seen them dig up jesus's tombs? If this were a fact it would have been published in a scientific journal or a history book. But does not pass the scientific method it is not published as historical fact."

I'd like to know which verses contradict each other. Whenever I've had people say that they've NEVER given an example of when the bible contradicts itself with verses. Do you believe a single part in the bible at all? Or just not the God parts of believing in him?

"Stories from people mean nothing. I understand how people tend to exagerate. I have experienced this myself. My parents are religious and i have heard them tell stories that make it seem like god is real. But when i ask them simple rational questions about the story you an see it all break down. Millions of people praying everyday, and a few of them get what they want (even if it can be explained without god) they claim it is god... It is nothing more than coincidence.

I believe i have spent enough time discussing with you. All you are doing now is going in loops and trying to use stories and the bible to prove god. That to me is NOT proof of anything. That is no different than if I claimed that fairies were real and i pointed to some ancient book and a few rumours to prove it.. It is not proof."

You can't possibly be serious when you use that word 'coincidence.' That is the backstop of all arguments, it wasn't a miracle, it wasn't God but it was a coincidence that over 2 years of everything getting worse you just happened to pray at a time it started to get better. Coincidence means that you have no other valid argument as to why it happened, you just REFUSE to believe the truth. You are blinded by what you see in front of you and are willing to try ANYTHING to get out of it. I could easily claim that it was a coincidence that we are having this debate online. I can claim that it was a coincidence that my life was turned around for the better when I just so happened to believe in God. I can claim that it was a coincidence that we are all here for no real reason. But in the end, the word 'coincidence' is merely a last desparate attempt to get out of believing in the truth. Whenever a miracle happens somebody always has to say that it was a coincidence, 100% OF THE TIME.

After awile it gets too boring and too many times for it to be a coincidence. Did you just happen to click on this thread randomly and start to rebut my points just for the hell of it? Do you actually believe that some miracles happen for no reason? I don't expect you to ever really come up with a logical explanation of a miracle happening at the time of somebody's prayer other than it being a 'coincidence' because you just can't explain it properly. You refuse to believe that God was a part of any of this and if there is no God then that means that life is worthless. What will happen to you when you die? Will you see darkness forever after only having about 100 years of fame in a world that has been here for longer than a trillion years? Everything happens for a reason. I do not believe in the word coincidence because, as I said, that is just a last desparate attempt to get away from the truth that is RIGHT in front of you.

If you do want to stop, we can but I always like to get the last word in.

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" Douglas Adams (1952-2001)

Evolution = we are here by pure accident =/= we are completely worthless.

He should cause he is an idiot

sex