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Mar 30 2014 01:00pm
think the oil could be used to terraform titan?
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Mar 30 2014 01:51pm
leaving atmospheric pressure out
this is basically azard's picture, but including Saturn and the sun
Code
wolframalpha
x= distance from earth in direction of Saturn
(1.352(2576/(2576+1,200,217,664-X))^2+10.44(60268/(60268+1201474724-X))^2)=9.8((6400)/(6400+X))^2 +274((695500)/(695500+X+149,597,870))^2



so, the pump would have to pump it at least 21,000,000km, not to mention the oil would be frozen...
the sun matters a lot, leaving the sun out the distance needed to pump was around 1,087,929,000km

This post was edited by saber_x3 on Mar 30 2014 02:14pm
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Mar 31 2014 12:39am
Quote (TeaRs- @ Mar 30 2014 12:00pm)
think the oil could be used to terraform titan?


Well there isn't enough oxygen (O2) on Titan to shake a stick at (its atmosphere is almost all nitrogen), so combustion would be a problem. Might be other uses for it, my chemistry isn't very strong.
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Mar 31 2014 01:53pm
MuricA
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Mar 31 2014 03:33pm
Quote (russian @ Mar 30 2014 10:32am)
Wait, what? If air pressure isn't pushing liquid into the pipe, then how could you ever start a siphon with an empty hose? Say you are siphoning gas from a car gas tank. You suck out the air and you now have a vacuum hose with one end in a pool of gas. Why would gas go up the hose?


How you start the flow is irrelevant. It would work just as well if you simply submerged the hose in the gas beforehand to prefill the tube, no sucking required.
The siphon effect isn't what starts the flow, its what keeps the flow going (on its own), and air pressure isn't the force responsible.

This post was edited by taekvideo on Mar 31 2014 03:34pm
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Mar 31 2014 08:52pm
Quote (taekvideo @ Mar 31 2014 02:33pm)
How you start the flow is irrelevant.  It would work just as well if you simply submerged the hose in the gas beforehand to prefill the tube, no sucking required.
The siphon effect isn't what starts the flow, its what keeps the flow going (on its own), and air pressure isn't the force responsible.
That is wildly inaccurate.
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Mar 31 2014 09:29pm
Quote (saber_x3 @ Mar 30 2014 12:51pm)

so, the pump would have to pump it at least 21,000,000km, not to mention the oil would be frozen...


We actually had this discussion with my relatives a couple years ago, and didn't come to a unanimous agreement. It's pretty common to say "it's cold in space", but what does that really mean? Temperature can't exist in a vacuum, because temperature is really the kinetic energy of molecules. And without any matter (or at least very little) surrounding a body, no heat is lost through convection. Really, vacuum should work like an amazing insulator and the only heat loss would be through radiation. So wouldn't you actually lose heat very slowly? Meaning that warm oil pumped through space would probably stay warm for the entire journey to Earth?
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Mar 31 2014 10:45pm
This discussion is hilarious.
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Mar 31 2014 10:54pm
Quote (russian @ Mar 31 2014 08:29pm)
Really, vacuum should work like an amazing insulator and the only heat loss would be through radiation. So wouldn't you actually lose heat very slowly?
Vacuums are excellent insulators. A good thermos (like what you keep hot or cold liquids in on the go) will often have a vacuum between the inner container and the outer container. But there are spider web supports that must exist to connect the inner container with the outer container so it just doesn't flopping around. These supports have a very small cross section to try to reduce heat conduction. The problem is the distance and the amount of time needed to cover that distance.

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Mar 31 2014 11:10pm
Quote (russian @ Mar 31 2014 09:29pm)
We actually had this discussion with my relatives a couple years ago, and didn't come to a unanimous agreement. It's pretty common to say "it's cold in space", but what does that really mean? Temperature can't exist in a vacuum, because temperature is really the kinetic energy of molecules. And without any matter (or at least very little) surrounding a body, no heat is lost through convection. Really, vacuum should work like an amazing insulator and the only heat loss would be through radiation. So wouldn't you actually lose heat very slowly? Meaning that warm oil pumped through space would probably stay warm for the entire journey to Earth?


yes, convection is negligible , and so is conduction at ends of the pipe.
but, radiation is not negligible when there is a temperature difference since the equation involves temperatures^4
q"=emissivity*(Boltzman)(t^4 -t^4)
assuming the fluid is at -179c, 94k, from the article
and i just googled searched outer space to be about 4k

radiative flux =(.9)(5.6703*10^-8)[(94^4) - (4^4)] = 4W/m^2
I'd say it'd have plenty of time to cool down, otherwise spacecrafts wouldn't need internal heating
Quote (taekvideo @ Mar 31 2014 03:33pm)
How you start the flow is irrelevant.  It would work just as well if you simply submerged the hose in the gas beforehand to prefill the tube, no sucking required.
The siphon effect isn't what starts the flow, its what keeps the flow going (on its own), and air pressure isn't the force responsible.


fluid motion = due to pressure gradient

This post was edited by saber_x3 on Mar 31 2014 11:16pm
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