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Nov 10 2010 04:22pm
Quote (bentherdonethat @ Nov 10 2010 04:46pm)
You don't need to know Why in order to understand everything else. We ventured into space by understanding how physics works, and we're venturing closer and closer to the quantum level without understanding exactly why the way it works the way that it does.


this is also a pretty meaningless question, since it's hard to say that anything happened at all before time started flowing at the instant the big bang occurred. We know it happened, though, that's a proven fact. And we are just a tiny little part of the universe. We're a single planet in a single solar system in a single galaxy. There exist an uncountable number of other planets and stars.



Electrons are understood to be point particles, having no actual size (this comes about because of the idea of electron spin, and the fact that if electrons had a volume, then the edges of the electron would be rotating faster than the speed of light). Neutrinos have a far, far lower mass than electrons, though, so if anything I would say that's probably the smallest known particle (though not necessarily the most basic, since protons and neutrons are made up of quarks, and Preons are the hypothesized point particles that make up quarks -- Isn't the Standard Model fun?).



That's kind of gibberish. It's like saying we can travel to different universes because I can drive from NY to NJ. They're completely unrelated.



I think you  might have been a bit high when you wrote that one :P


How are you defining intelligence? Intelligence is the ability to think and understand things. A plant does not think; it grows. A bacteria does not understand. It simply acts as the chemical reactions inside of it direct it to. It cannot choose to somehow do something other than what it does, because it cannot think. It doesn't have intelligence.


We, as people, don't really need to do anything. We're here, and we're spending the time we have accordingly. You're not showing me anything other than vague, half-completed thoughts about random topics. You're feeling spirituality for the first time which is a great thing, but I think you're looking too hard for places to apply it.



Nope. We're staying the same size while everything is getting farther apart.

By the way, since you said you're a science student, what science are you studying?


biology, was originally into cell and molecular bio, but now moving more towards plants and evolution

umm a lot of things you are saying doesnt really have proof though, you say plants and bacteria grow, but they dont know that they are doing it. I THINK THAT WAS MY OTHER POINT!!! i mean okay half of these thigns will tie together once i get it all straightened out. but okay think about this, what if they are growing and they are doing it because it is in their nature, and that is what intelligence is?
we wanted to be different, and our self-awareness has basically led us to our own suicide right? i mean we are killing ourselves...but plants are smart enough to keep themselves alive? and serve their purpose on earth?

thats what i meant by we are too intelligent for our own good, we chose a path that led us away from nature because we are aware..and in doing so we are committing suicide which is a sin!
if i was to die without realizing it then it wouldnt mean that i killed myself right? maybe i'm starting to get off topic, but like all the stuff i had in mind tied together at one point, and they go in and out of me, so it's hard to grasp everything at once, but like, thats why i think the bible relates to nature which relates to science, though science branched off into stupid things but nature stays consistent


by getting smaller i meant as a whole, if someone was to look at our universe and see its growth, we are becoming smaller? because if that someone is infinately large, then we just look smaller if we arent growing ..oh but i guess we are growing too...so then i guess we just look like we're staying the same size.........................................lol

This post was edited by MOMOtheflyingLEMUR on Nov 10 2010 04:24pm
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Nov 10 2010 04:37pm
Quote (MOMOtheflyingLEMUR @ Nov 10 2010 05:22pm)
umm a lot of things you are saying doesnt really have proof though, you say plants and bacteria grow, but they dont know that they are doing it. I THINK THAT WAS MY OTHER POINT!!! i mean okay half of these thigns will tie together once i get it all straightened out. but okay think about this, what if they are growing and they are doing it because it is in their nature, and that is what intelligence is?

If you want to get into proof, then let's be fair: none of what you're saying has any proof. If you redefine intelligence to be an organism following exactly what its DNA makes it do, then yes, plants and bacteria are intelligent. Where you come into trouble, though, is here:

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we wanted to be different, and our self-awareness has basically led us to our own suicide right? i mean we are killing ourselves...but plants are smart enough to keep themselves alive? and serve their purpose on earth?

thats what i meant by we are too intelligent for our own good, we chose a path that led us away from nature because we are aware.. and in doing so we are committing suicide which is a sin!

You're using a different definition of intelligence that requires thought/consciousness/awareness, and not just us acting on what our DNA tells us to do.

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if i was to die without realizing it then it wouldnt mean that i killed myself right? maybe i'm starting to get off topic, but like all the stuff i had in mind tied together at one point, and they go in and out of me, so it's hard to grasp everything at once, but like, thats why i think the bible relates to nature which relates to science, though science branched off into stupid things but nature stays consistent

Or, perhaps, you were squashed by a giant falling rock, so that you died instantly without any inkling that it was about to happen. You're mistaken in trying to weave the Bible and nature in that way. Having read the Bible, I can tell you it doesn't tell us anything about the nature of intelligence or of plants and animals and other life forms. You're coming up with all that on your own.

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by getting smaller i meant as a whole, if someone was to look at our universe and see its growth, we are becoming smaller? because if that someone is infinately large, then we just look smaller if we arent growing ..oh but i guess we are growing too...so then i guess we just look like we're staying the same size.........................................lol

You meant smaller as a percentage? Sure, but since we only occupy an infinitesimal percentage of the universe, then even if the universe doubles in size, will that change even be noticeable?

This post was edited by bentherdonethat on Nov 10 2010 04:38pm
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Nov 10 2010 04:43pm
Quote (bentherdonethat @ Nov 10 2010 05:37pm)
If you redefine intelligence to be an organism following exactly what its DNA makes it do, then yes, plants and bacteria are intelligent. Where you come into trouble, though, is here:


You're using a different definition of intelligence that requires thought/consciousness/awareness, and not just us acting on what our DNA tells us to do.


Or, perhaps, you were squashed by a giant falling rock, so that you died instantly without any inkling that it was about to happen. You're mistaken in trying to weave the Bible and nature in that way. Having read the Bible, I can tell you it doesn't tell us anything about the nature of intelligence or of plants and animals and other life forms. You're coming up with all that on your own.


You meant smaller as a percentage? Sure, but since we only occupy an infinitesimal percentage of the universe, then even if the universe doubles in size, will that change even be noticeable?


THAT CHANGE WOULD BE NOTICABLE to nature..
yeah well cant there be more than just one form of intelligence?
maybe we had the same intelligence as plants at one point, but then we became too intelligent and started questioning nature..and too much intelligence led to our suicide, since too much of anything will kill you?
and all the stuff i'm remembering about religion is from being a jehovah's witness from gr.3-6 lol
yeah, if i was killed by a falling rock, randomly, that wouldnt mean i kiklled myself..same with sleep walkign into the middle of the road and getting hit by a car. i mean, my mind brought me to do it, but there wouldnt have been any self-awareness right? and thats what separates us from plants? because adam sinned and wanted to gain knowledge so fruit gave him awareness?
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Nov 10 2010 04:48pm
Quote (MOMOtheflyingLEMUR @ Nov 10 2010 05:43pm)
THAT CHANGE WOULD BE NOTICABLE to nature..

No it wouldn't. If you think it will, explain how it would be. Planets are huge distances apart from each other. Stuff happening in other galaxies, lightyears away, does essentially nothing to us here on Earth.

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yeah well cant there be more than just one form of intelligence?

I suppose here can be, yes, but you're not allowed to form an argument as if you're using the same definition throughout. That's not how a logical argument progresses.

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maybe we had the same intelligence as plants at one point, but then we became too intelligent and started questioning nature..and too much intelligence led to our suicide, since too much of anything will kill you?

As homo sapiens, we've never simply done what our DNA told us. Our DNA didn't tell us to make tools, start farming, make fire, etc.

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and all the stuff i'm remembering about religion is from being a jehovah's witness from gr.3-6 lol

Do Jehovah's Witnesses even read the same Bible as other Christians? I don't think they do.

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yeah, if i was killed by a falling rock, randomly, that wouldnt mean i kiklled myself..same with sleep walkign into the middle of the road and getting hit by a car. i mean, my mind brought me to do it, but there wouldnt have been any self-awareness right? and thats what separates us from plants? because adam sinned and wanted to gain knowledge so fruit gave him awareness?

Not even sure what you're talking about here. Like, at all. You've completely lost me.
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Nov 10 2010 07:27pm
Quote (bentherdonethat @ Nov 10 2010 05:48pm)
No it wouldn't. If you think it will, explain how it would be. Planets are huge distances apart from each other. Stuff happening in other galaxies, lightyears away, does essentially nothing to us here on Earth.


I suppose here can be, yes, but you're not allowed to form an argument as if you're using the same definition throughout. That's not how a logical argument progresses.


As homo sapiens, we've never simply done what our DNA told us. Our DNA didn't tell us to make tools, start farming, make fire, etc.


Do Jehovah's Witnesses even read the same Bible as other Christians? I don't think they do.


Not even sure what you're talking about here. Like, at all. You've completely lost me.


hahahahhahaa
okay well first, it doesnt matter if it does anything to use or not, because i'm looking at the world as a whole. stuff happening really far away may not affect us, but probably affects nature?
why cant there just be one definition of intelligence that defines all types? i think what i'm getting at is nature has a different intelligence, and we have a different intelligence, but nature understands that we have this different intelligence, but we dont understand that it has this other intelligence and that is why we are not as intelligent as nature.
okay so dna didnt tell us to make tools, what did? how did we find this out? i think its because we observed nature and understood what was needed, but now we dont pay as much attention to nature, instead we pay more attention to ourselves.
jehovah's witnesses dont read the same bible as other christians, but the bible is the bible, concepts are all the same. how does religion exist all over the world if it doesnt mean anything?
i was comparing our sins in the past (adam and apple) to our sins now. he wanted to know more , to benefit himself, and that is why he disobeyed and ate the apple and became aware , right? (putting on clothes, etc. )
isnt that a metaphor to what we are doing right now? people decided theyll learn less about life sciences and more about business and marketing, just to benefit themselves? who made money?
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Nov 10 2010 07:50pm
That was shitty. It seems like you don't even have a main topic to stick to.

This post was edited by AEtheric on Nov 10 2010 08:17pm
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Nov 10 2010 07:54pm
Quote (AEtheric @ Nov 11 2010 01:50am)
That was shitty. It seems like you don't even have a main topic to stick to.  You start mentioning god in the middle of the paragraph and start talking about keeping an open mind.


peace and love mayne
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Nov 10 2010 08:24pm
Okay wow, I'm done with this topic because I can actually feel myself getting stupider for trying to play along.
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Nov 10 2010 08:38pm
Quote (bentherdonethat @ Nov 10 2010 09:24pm)
Okay wow, I'm done with this topic because I can actually feel myself getting stupider for trying to play along.


LOL

Quote (AEtheric @ Nov 10 2010 08:50pm)
That was shitty. It seems like you don't even have a main topic to stick to.


what? but my topic is life

Quote (lone500 @ Nov 10 2010 08:54pm)
peace and love mayne


:D


but i dont understand why people keep telling me that my things make no sense but wont let me know what the answer is...what point is that? i'm still stuck not knowing answers to things that you already know

This post was edited by MOMOtheflyingLEMUR on Nov 10 2010 08:40pm
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Nov 10 2010 08:39pm
Quote (bentherdonethat @ Nov 11 2010 02:24am)
Okay wow, I'm done with this topic because I can actually feel myself getting stupider for trying to play along.


I was just about to tell you to stop arguing with that moron. Seriously.
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