Quote (Azrad @ Mar 21 2014 12:01pm)

a. Your logic is backwards on that one. I can't establish that the universe is infinite or not infinite, neither can Craig. Yet he uses it as a postulate. See the problem?

b. The second law is taken as true in classical mechanics only. Otherwise it is only statistical, meaning it is "true most of the time". However it is not always true.

d. So using the conservation of energy, you will never be able to establish that the universe is not infinite (if you want to try, go right ahead!). So we still can't tell if the universe is infinite or not. So saying it isn't infinite as a postulate is very dishonest (unless you are trying to do something like a proof by contradiction, which Craig is not). But dishonesty from Craig is nothing new.  .

Quote (Ylem122 @ Mar 21 2014 09:31am)

A. so you accept that his view is a possiblity?

Quote (Ylem122 @ Mar 21 2014 09:31am)

d. So you accept that his view is possible despite your attempts to charaterize him as a lunatic?

Quote (Ylem122 @ Mar 21 2014 09:31am)

B. examples?

Quote (Ylem122 @ Mar 21 2014 09:31am)

like that the universe is finite would be like the atheist view while thinking its infinite would be the theist view.

Quote (Azrad @ Mar 21 2014 01:01pm)

I haven't discussed any of his views, please stop referring to them as such. He is presenting a formal proof, in which he is being intentionally dishonest.

I haven't discussed any of his views, please stop referring to them as such. Furthermore he is no lunatic, he knows exactly what he is doing when he constructs those dishonest proofs.




http://s30.postimg.org/ydswwc9z5/ent2.png
sure take a box and put a divider in it. Then put 1 mole of a gas on one side, remove the divider and wait an amount of time then reinsert the divider. What is the probability all the gas molecules will be on the same side of the divider? About 0. The second law will essentially never fail you here.

now take the box and put one molecule of gas on each side and remove the divider, wait, then reinsert the divider. What is the chance the gas molecules will be on the same side? About 50%. So 50% of the time the second law will fail you here.

There are more complicated examples in systems where gravity is strong, but this is the simplest I can think of.

Quote (Ylem122 @ Mar 21 2014 10:09am)

there is most definatly a quote expressing some views of his, i belive thats what prompted this whole character attack you launched.

Quote (Azrad @ Mar 21 2014 01:16pm)

I clearly explained the dishonesty in the proofs. Now if you want to be an apologist for an apologist, and try to defend his proofs, fine. But otherwise I don't care.

Quote (Ylem122 @ Mar 21 2014 10:20am)

I dont even know who the guy is, regardless, the way you reguard his opinion gives no respect to the valid parts of it.

Quote (Azrad @ Mar 21 2014 01:25pm)

Proofs with bad premises are not valid.

Quote (Ylem122 @ Mar 21 2014 10:26am)

Im sorry that you dont think its valid.