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Nov 12 2013 03:06am
to the OP, yes is a real phenomena that is well tested.

a decent place to start:


This post was edited by Azrad on Nov 12 2013 03:07am
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Nov 12 2013 04:52am
here is some practical use for it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_cryptography
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Nov 12 2013 05:46am
Quote (khemist @ 12 Nov 2013 04:49)
Start with Leonard Susskind and his lectures on youtube through Stanford. ...
see comment below
... if anyone tells you they truely understand quantum mechanics they probably dont know much.
don't be so negative, there are a few people around - at least two of my professors could lay claim to that
but they spent years on those subjects  B)
personally i would claim to have a grasp of those subjects - but a true understanding? no

Physics as a whole is extremely interesting. Wiki pages for physics is generally very reliable. ...

actually for the whole area of natural sciences and mathematics wiki is not bad, so can be used as a basic introduction to many subjects

Quote (sirfrozt @ 12 Nov 2013 06:34)
...stilll feel anything is possible but I will keep an open mind.


seriously, not everything is possible on the quantum level (i'll let you find out by yoourself after you have read much more :P )
but more importantly:
those nice phenomena which work at the quantum level like quantum teleportation or passing through walls which you quoted, don't work on the macro level
do they have any impact on the macro world? certainly - and to stimulate your interest in the subject:
there have been (serious) studies to find if there is a connection between quantum entanglement and mental states, eg free will


Quote (madeinchinars @ 12 Nov 2013 08:47)
man I wish this shit made sense to me
all we did in our first two quantum mechanics classes was math, math, and moar maff!


and you stopped after two classes? :baby:
to fully understand the stuff you have to go through the math, but
there is more interesting math around (at least for my taste),
'swiss cheese' is so tasty - hmmm


Quote (Azrad @ 12 Nov 2013 09:06)
to the OP, yes is a real phenomena that is well tested.
a decent place to start: ...


you and 'khemist' really like your (stanford) videos as much as 'doomchaser' likes his (non-stanford ones) :evil:

This post was edited by brmv on Nov 12 2013 06:07am
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Nov 12 2013 06:08am
I heard the phenomenon compared to a pair of gloves. If you have the right glove then you know the other is always left, it doesn't mean they have a special, cosmic bond.

I don't know how valid this is though.
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Nov 12 2013 07:11am
Quote (Mastersam93 @ Nov 12 2013 05:08am)
I heard the phenomenon compared to a pair of gloves. If you have the right glove then you know the other is always left
that is a decent explanation of what classical entanglement might have been like. However this description fails to describe quantum entanglement (as do all non-mathematical descriptions).

To paraphrase your example:

We take pair of gloves and put them in a box and shake the box up real good.
Then you extract one of the gloves without checking to see if it is the right or left hand, and put it in a new box and well call this box A. You then put the other glove in another box and call it box B. You take box A and go home; I take box B and go home. The next morning I open up my box (b) and find I have the left handed glove, and I call you on the phone and tell you. Now you know you have the right handed glove; you open your box just to check the logic and sure enough you do. Your explanation (above) seems to be something like: "This is not surprising, the right glove was in box A the entire time, and the left handed glove was in box B all the time, we just didn't know it until someone opened their box.

Now the quantum version:
We take a pair of electrons in a total spin 0 state (this means that their spins are opposite, not unlike the gloves). Again we put one in each box and take them home. I measure the spin on mine (along a certain axis) and call you and give you the results. You now can predict what result you will get if you do this same experiment (you will get the opposite of what I found, not unlike the gloves). And again you might be tempted to give the explanation you gave above: that this is not surprising, you always had the "left electron" and I had the "right electron" all along. But now it fails, because we can clearly show with other experiments, that the state (the left/rightness) of my electron was not determined until I measured it. In fact neither electron was in a definite state until I measured mine. And both of them were in a definite state after my measurement. And therein lies the weirdness.

How can the laws of nature be different for electrons and gloves you ask? Especially since gloves are made out of electrons (and other stuff)? Well of course the laws aren't really different. A better version of the story above would include the incredible special care we would need to use to keep those electrons in an indefinite left/rightness state. They would need to be isolated extremely well from their environments. Without these precautions the electrons would almost immediately collide with the walls of the box, interact with molecules of air in the box, perhaps be hit by photons, and other kinds of ugly stuff. These unwanted events are very similar to the measurement process I was planning on doing later, and achieve the same result (they make the left/rightness state definite). So without special care your description would be pretty good, in that the state of those electrons would have been determined immediately after they were put into their boxes, so when you took home box A, you had the "right handed" electron all along (and I had the left).

The punch line is that while it is possible to isolate an electron in this fashion if you use great care, it is essentially impossible to do this with gloves, they are just too big. This is why gloves seem to obey a different set of rules than electrons, but in reality it is the same set of rules.

And I should mention, even the above is a gross over simplification. And if you prod my explanation too much, it will fail, just like yours did. :(

This post was edited by Azrad on Nov 12 2013 07:11am
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Nov 12 2013 01:33pm
Quote (brmv @ Nov 12 2013 04:46am)


you and 'khemist' really like your (stanford) videos as much as 'doomchaser' likes his (non-stanford ones)  :evil:


Its (one of) the most comprehensive lecture series subject I have found on the internet on this subject. I watched it when I was first getting interested in physics, and while I didnt know what he was talking about most of the time it prepared me somewhat for those classes, because I had heard the terms and seen some of the notation before.
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Nov 22 2013 04:55pm
thank you all for the useful sources. the more i research this the more exciting it becomes for me. i still haven't been able to get into the math as much because the analogies and obscure attempts at explaining it using what we know is logical have held my interest. im not exactly sure what math i would even use. probability seems to come up a lot, but its all on an infinite scale so im not 100% sure how to apply this. still very interesting to me
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Nov 22 2013 05:47pm
Quote (PonyKiller @ 22 Nov 2013 22:55)
thank you all for the useful sources. the more i research this the more exciting it becomes for me. i still haven't been able to get into the math as much because the analogies and obscure attempts at explaining it using what we know is logical have held my interest. im not exactly sure what math i would even use. probability seems to come up a lot, but its all on an infinite scale so im not 100% sure how to apply this. still very interesting to me


for starters "functional analysis"

postscript:

but if that is not your thing, then enjoy the 'popular explanations' but ensure you keep a grain of salt on hand

This post was edited by brmv on Nov 22 2013 06:01pm
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Nov 23 2013 06:58am
Quote (Azrad @ Nov 12 2013 08:11am)
that is a decent explanation of what classical entanglement might have been like. However this description fails to describe quantum entanglement (as do all non-mathematical descriptions).

To paraphrase your example: ......

The punch line is that while it is possible to isolate an electron in this fashion if you use great care, it is essentially impossible to do this with gloves, they are just too big. This is why gloves seem to obey a different set of rules than electrons, but in reality it is the same set of rules.

And I should mention, even the above is a gross over simplification. And if you prod my explanation too much, it will fail, just like yours did.  :(


Excellent Description IMO

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Nov 25 2013 11:16am
Quote (Azrad @ Nov 12 2013 06:11am)
that is a decent explanation of what classical entanglement might have been like. However this description fails to describe quantum entanglement (as do all non-mathematical descriptions).

To paraphrase your example:

We take pair of gloves and put them in a box and shake the box up real good.
Then you extract one of the gloves without checking to see if it is the right or left hand, and put it in a new box and well call this box A. You then put the other glove in another box and call it box B. You take box A and go home; I take box B and go home. The next morning I open up my box (b) and find I have the left handed glove, and I call you on the phone and tell you. Now you know you have the right handed glove; you open your box just to check the logic and sure enough you do. Your explanation (above) seems to be something like: "This is not surprising, the right glove was in box A the entire time, and the left handed glove was in box B all the time, we just didn't know it until someone opened their box.

Now the quantum version:
We take a pair of electrons in a total spin 0 state (this means that their spins are opposite, not unlike the gloves). Again we put one in each box and take them home. I measure the spin on mine (along a certain axis) and call you and give you the results. You now can predict what result you will get if you do this same experiment (you will get the opposite of what I found, not unlike the gloves). And again you might be tempted to give the explanation you gave above: that this is not surprising, you always had the "left electron" and I had the "right electron" all along. But now it fails, because we can clearly show with other experiments, that the state (the left/rightness) of my electron was not determined until I measured it. In fact neither electron was in a definite state until I measured mine. And  both of them were in a definite state after my measurement. And therein lies the weirdness.

How can the laws of nature be different for electrons and gloves you ask? Especially since gloves are made out of electrons (and other stuff)? Well of course the laws aren't really different. A better version of the story above would include the incredible special care we would need to use to keep those electrons in an indefinite left/rightness state. They would need to be isolated extremely well from their environments. Without these precautions the electrons would almost immediately collide with the walls of the box, interact with molecules of air in the box, perhaps be hit by photons, and other kinds of ugly stuff. These unwanted events are very similar to the measurement process I was planning on doing later, and achieve the same result (they make the left/rightness state definite). So without special care your description would be pretty good, in that the state of those electrons would have been determined immediately after they were put into their boxes, so when you took home box A, you had the "right handed" electron all along (and I had the left).

The punch line is that while it is possible to isolate an electron in this fashion if you use great care, it is essentially impossible to do this with gloves, they are just too big. This is why gloves seem to obey a different set of rules than electrons, but in reality it is the same set of rules.

And I should mention, even the above is a gross over simplification. And if you prod my explanation too much, it will fail, just like yours did.  :(


Quantum Physics is strange...Entanglement of two electrons ...no matter the distance you get 1 to react and change, the other 1 will do the same...Soo we can use something with this affect, to comunicate instantly soon I would think..if 1 person watching 1 electron while other 1 worlds apart makes the other 1 react....is just 1 small thing this should lead us too.

soo even if you by a star, that takes 1 billion years for the light to reach earth...you can instantly send a message to earth

This post was edited by doomchaser on Nov 25 2013 11:41am
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