d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Science, Technology & Nature > Free Will Does Not Exist.
Prev123457Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 7,154
Joined: Aug 31 2009
Gold: 27.50
Nov 19 2009 11:31am
Quote (rchau @ Nov 19 2009 11:03am)
ya, but where the fuck did u learn to say "Hello boy" when you saw a dog? And you don't make that execution everytime u see a dog.
I could make a choice to lay in bed all day and skip all my classes... doesn't make it predetermined.
If everything is predetermined then you are also claiming no one should take fault for anything.


well go read the ebook that hes posted or find out a little about it first because it bores me having to try and explain to people about this kind of thing, you obviously just came in here read what he said and didnt take a second to look into it and just blurted some babble.
that was an example of a computer program which takes one of two file paths (if. or else.) that is basically the theory that this post is about. if you wanted to make it complicated then go read how to make javascript that way you can understand that there are other variables but if you cant understand what i said there i doubt you'll get past the first paragraph. yet again another person who comes ranting when he hasnt got a clue. i suggest you go to school and dont skip any classes you obviously have problems reading and understanding

This post was edited by cookitagain on Nov 19 2009 11:55am
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Nov 14 2009
Gold: 2.00
Nov 19 2009 11:20pm
Quote (rchau @ Nov 19 2009 02:00am)
So u had no choice but to create a multi and post a topic about free will because of chemical reactions in ur brain?
I would imagine by finding out free will not existing, it could potentially affect an organisms life greatly.
But we do understand cause and effect...


you're a fuckin tard.


not a multi.

posted that and went away for a couple days.



Member
Posts: 17,854
Joined: Jul 26 2008
Gold: 4.32
Nov 20 2009 04:51am
so by definition you believe in fate, and can't believe in any alternate/parallel universeish theory.


not going to even bother with the free will/predestination argument, circles are worthless and both sides are wrong anyway.
Member
Posts: 7,154
Joined: Aug 31 2009
Gold: 27.50
Nov 20 2009 05:45am
Quote (devilsvex @ Nov 20 2009 11:51am)
so by definition you believe in fate, and can't believe in any alternate/parallel universeish theory.


not going to even bother with the free will/predestination argument, circles are worthless and both sides are wrong anyway.


not necessarily fate but if you think about it a chemical reaction takes place and makes a synaptic response much like a computer gets command and does a response although obviously a human is far more complex.
Member
Posts: 9,692
Joined: Apr 10 2006
Gold: 19,597.59
Nov 20 2009 02:42pm
Quote (kepkep @ Nov 16 2009 01:49pm)
Human "choices" are the result of chemical reactions taking place in the brain. You're just a complex biological machine, nothing more. I know that sounds cold, but free will does not exist. Given sufficient information (google the book Single Neuron Computation, and single neuron dynamics) you could predict exactly how an organism's life will turn out.

True free will would negate cause and effect. Ultimately we're all just a very complex system. Free will is our personal experience of a system too complex for us to reliably understand.


i have read alot about tests done on this subject and they point to the likelihood that free will does not exist.
Member
Posts: 7,154
Joined: Aug 31 2009
Gold: 27.50
Nov 21 2009 11:21am
Quote (juliusjuice @ Nov 20 2009 09:42pm)
i have read alot about tests done on this subject and they point to the likelihood that free will does not exist.


exactly you just have to think about it and it does make sense.
Member
Posts: 21,066
Joined: Dec 16 2005
Gold: 100.07
Nov 21 2009 04:12pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-560149/So-free-really-just-illusion.html

Quote
Mind over matter: But do we make conscious choices?

But now science is coming up with some fascinating - and deeply uncomfortable - answers.

This week, for instance, Professor John-Dylan Haynes and colleagues at the Max Planck Institute in Germany report the findings of an extraordinary experiment which seems to show that "free will" - the most cherished tenet of humanity, which decrees that Man has total control of his own actions - may, in fact, be little more than an illusion.

For in their experiment, the scientists found that we may not be making conscious choices at all.

Rather, our subconscious minds may be dictating our actions, long before we realise.

It is a troubling suggestion. As Prof Haynes says: "The impression that we are freely able to choose between different possible courses of action is fundamental to our mental health."

If we are not in control after all, then that makes humans little more than automatons.

In his experiment, volunteers were asked to view a stream of letters on a computer screen and told, at some point, of their choosing, to press a button either with their left or right index finger - and remember the letter that was on the screen when they did so.

The volunteers were also connected to brain-scanning MRI machines which were able to monitor and analyse brain patterns.

These "mind-reading" scanners could recognise when the brain had decided on a course of action.

To the researchers' astonishment, it turned out that the volunteers' brains would reach a decision about pressing one of the buttons several seconds before the volunteers actually thought they had made up their minds.

The implications are hugely significant, because the experiment suggests that what we think of as a "conscious decision" may, in fact, be no such thing.



Pretty fucking terrifying if you really think about it.
Member
Posts: 11,116
Joined: Aug 9 2006
Gold: 26,186.19
Nov 22 2009 01:27pm
Quote (kepkep @ Nov 16 2009 02:49pm)
Human "choices" are the result of chemical reactions taking place in the brain. You're just a complex biological machine, nothing more. I know that sounds cold, but free will does not exist. Given sufficient information (google the book Single Neuron Computation, and single neuron dynamics) you could predict exactly how an organism's life will turn out.

True free will would negate cause and effect. Ultimately we're all just a very complex system. Free will is our personal experience of a system too complex for us to reliably understand.


No you can't. Ever heard of Heisenberg's Indetermination Principle?
Member
Posts: 10,812
Joined: Oct 15 2009
Gold: Locked
Warn: 20%
Nov 22 2009 03:26pm
Quote (kepkep @ Nov 16 2009 11:49am)
Given sufficient information (google the book Single Neuron Computation, and single neuron dynamics) you could predict exactly how an organism's life will turn out.


1. Quantum Mechanics
2. hidden variables (a form of determinism)
3. Locality (relativity)

You can not create a consistent world view with ALL 3 of these ideas. At least one of them must be given up. So pick two, but keep in mind 1 and 3 are very well tested. If you chose to give up 2, then you can't predict exactly how an organism's life will turn out, no matter how much information you have. If you chose to give up one of the well tested ones (1 or 3) I think you better have some darn good reasoning behind it.

This post was edited by Azrad on Nov 22 2009 03:27pm
Member
Posts: 3,199
Joined: Feb 10 2006
Gold: 6,831.00
Nov 24 2009 11:56am
Quote (kepkep @ Nov 16 2009 02:49pm)
Human "choices" are the result of chemical reactions taking place in the brain. You're just a complex biological machine, nothing more. I know that sounds cold, but free will does not exist. Given sufficient information (google the book Single Neuron Computation, and single neuron dynamics) you could predict exactly how an organism's life will turn out.

True free will would negate cause and effect. Ultimately we're all just a very complex system. Free will is our personal experience of a system too complex for us to reliably understand.


how do u do life? are u at 100% efficiency?
Go Back To Science, Technology & Nature Topic List
Prev123457Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll