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Dec 12 2008 03:22pm
Quote (penguinhero @ Fri, Dec 12 2008, 02:14am)
MIT I think?

My father said some student came to him looking to buy a turbine of some sort becuase they are making a tokamak generator.


Yes, you're right I think.
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Dec 12 2008 07:26pm
Quote (Grippster @ Fri, Dec 12 2008, 06:10am)
combine tidal, solar and wind, we have ennough energy forever.

get geothermal, u can forget the above.

ignore corporate alternatives. such as gas, clean coal, nuclear power etc..


These take up ALOT of land, and especially if you're going to completely rely on them. They are also very costly (but ofcourse they're clean and provide free energy, so as long as we make a moderate but steady push towards these, cost shouldn't be an issue)

Nuclear however, I think if we can tap into the power of fusion -- then we can start thinking about furthering our current technology. We can start building bigger and badder machines tongue.gif ~ haha j/k ofcourse, ( or maybe not o.o), but we could definately start exploring more space and think about faster planes. The instantaneous power that fusion provides is what will allow us to build any type of machine with no worry about energy consumption -- no matter what rate of usage.
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Dec 14 2008 07:20am
Quote (Mosso4 @ Thu, Dec 11 2008, 04:32am)
Fission Reactors will be clean,safe, and I think about a billion times more effecient than Nuclear Reactors(Fussion), but won't be ready for 50 years b/c of lack of funding and technological breakthroughs. Saw it on a Discovery channel program on alternative energys. We should be dumping money into this, what other alternative energies do you know about?


The technology itself won't be ready for at least 50 years (AT LEAST- emphasis) within sound energy production limitations.

The reactors, like current nuclear reactors, will take decades to build on top of that.

Quote (ChaosDealer73 @ Thu, Dec 11 2008, 04:35am)
You have the terms confused. Currently we use nuclear fission, and the energy you're talking about is fusion. Fusion is the forcing of atomic nuclei together while fission is the opposite. The current problems with fusion is that it takes more energy to mine/make the radioactive forms of hydrogen (Deuterium and Tritium), and even more energy to fuse it that you end up losing energy. Eventually we would want a self-sustaining reactor that we only need to feed. It is the same concept of a star; perpetual fusion to create energy.

Currently, the only "clean" energies would be wind, water, solar, and potentially geothermal. Other than that it will simply be perfecting the technologies we DO have such as clean coal, natural gas, and the nuclear fission that recycles the plutonium-239 created by the breakdown of uranium-235. I believe those types of reactors are called Breeding Reactors. They use a mixture of PU-238 and U-235 to help cut down on the nuclear waste.


There are dozens of carbon neutral energy sources as well as case specific power alternatives (MFCs for example). Lack of funding for research in less broad power applications lead to a lessened progression of an overall solution. We have more options to explore than non-fuelled )loosely applied).

Quote (Yankzfan @ Thu, Dec 11 2008, 05:26am)

Wind, Water, Solar energy are clean, but they aren't very effective.
ChaosDealer's post pretty much says what I was about to waste a paragraph writing...so Yeah, go with that =)


They are hugely effective...

Quote (Myrddrall9 @ Thu, Dec 11 2008, 05:31am)
The problem with solar energy is that only a small fraction of it actually hits our planet, and of that fraction only a tiny amount is able to be utilized (not to mention the inefficiencies of current solar panel technology).


Why would we consider the solar energy that doesn't hit our planet? That's irrelevant. The only reason it is considered inefficient is because people typically assume that solar energy refers to solar panels, which have the disadvantage of a poor conversion factor from radiant to electrical energy per surface area of panel.

Solar turbines/solar towers are far more productive, an a viable source of energy in mass production.

Quote (Myrddrall9 @ Thu, Dec 11 2008, 05:31am)
EDIT:Not to say that we shouldn't use solar, it's just the hardest to use to it's full potential.


We don't use the full potential of any energy source. As far as solar turbines go, they're pretty easy to utilise an endless amount of energy (in the right location) in comparison to fuel powered plants which require purification, insulations, etc. etc. of fuel and the plant itself.


Quote (ChaosDealer73 @ Thu, Dec 11 2008, 05:42am)
There were debates on putting solar panels in space where the atmosphere would not lessen the energy absorbed, but the issue was getting the energy back down to earth. Someone suggested using microwaves to beam it back to earth, but I'd feel bad for whatever happened to cross the path of that beam. Hehe.. insta-fried bird.

And you're right about solar energy being difficult to use effectively. The best things to do in terms of solar energy is to use it per capita. Try to build all buildings using passive solar energy while using active solar energy panels on the house (And adding a geothermal pipe would be all the better). That will save a ton on electricity and the rest (which will be significantly less) would be covered by the electrical grid.

Also, putting solar panels in deserted areas/deserts would be more useful, but expensive.


Solar panels aren't the only form of solar power. Why do people always draw that assumption?

Quote (BovineDesi @ Thu, Dec 11 2008, 09:23am)
Methane gas can also be used as natural fuel, and so can vege oil...pretty much any oil and it is as effective as gasoline. Those are conveniently forgotten.


It's already done in industry to reduce emissions and produce a substantial amount of power. Don't see why it's not being done commercially.
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Dec 14 2008 10:56am
Quote (Myrddrall9 @ Thu, 11 Dec 2008, 05:47)
That brings up another interesting point that I had picked up somewhere, that a possible incentive for development of solor energy would be to allow for excess energy generated to be resold (private individuals for example would get a payment for their contribution to the grid), this would both result in more effective technology and more effective electrical use (people would try and conserve more electricity for the sake of cash).


already happens in several countries

and another comment to solar energy:
how come germany which is not really blessed with too much sun is leading in solar technology and has a whole township supplied with it?

some comments on the others:

tidal energy has been used in france since over 50 years but not on a large scale, nowadays britain and australia are probably leading

heavy breeders do not recycle nuclear material, they are efficient in producing weapon grade plutonium

geothermal energy is being heavily tested in france where a whole suburb is supplied with it

This post was edited by brmv on Dec 14 2008 11:01am
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Dec 14 2008 03:20pm
sorry cannot edit anymore but found an interesting article:

http://www.welt.de/english-news/article2862218/Is-German-energy-policy-a-model-for-Obama.html

Germany's Solar Power
...
Despite its heavy cloud cover most of the year, Germany produces half of the world’s solar power, twice as much as its nearest rival, Japan, and four times third-placed United States.
It produced 3.78 gigawatts in 2007 and in 2008 will add 1.5 gigawatts. Renewables account for 14 percent of its electricity.
This success was set in motion a decade ago, when a new coalition of Germany’s Social Democrats and Greens set up a framework to promote solar, wind and other renewables by requiring utilities to buy clean energy at above-market rates.
...
In Germany, utilities will be paying out less to solar providers from 2010, reflecting the sector’s strong gains in recent years.
...

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Dec 14 2008 03:53pm
Quote (brmv @ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 01:20pm)
sorry cannot edit anymore but found an interesting article:

http://www.welt.de/english-news/article2862218/Is-German-energy-policy-a-model-for-Obama.html

Germany's Solar Power
...
Despite its heavy cloud cover most of the year, Germany produces half of the world’s solar power, twice as much as its nearest rival, Japan, and four times third-placed United States.
It produced 3.78 gigawatts in 2007 and in 2008 will add 1.5 gigawatts. Renewables account for 14 percent of its electricity.
This success was set in motion a decade ago, when a new coalition of Germany’s Social Democrats and Greens set up a framework to promote solar, wind and other renewables by requiring utilities to buy clean energy at above-market rates.
...
In Germany, utilities will be paying out less to solar providers from 2010, reflecting the sector’s strong gains in recent years.
...

except solar panals need to be replaced every 15-20 years.
and im quite sure germany doesn't have nearly the power needs of the us. if we were to do that with our energy demand wed need quite a bit more panals than germany has
solar is good energy on the personal scale, such as back yards or roof tops, but for the public scale of providing energy to the people its incredibly unefficiant

This post was edited by Kamikizzle on Dec 14 2008 03:55pm
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Dec 28 2008 08:49am
Quote (Kamikizzle @ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 09:53pm)
except solar panals need to be replaced every 15-20 years.
and im quite sure germany doesn't have nearly the power needs of the us. if we were to do that with our energy demand wed need quite a bit more panals than germany has
solar is good energy on the personal scale, such as back yards or roof tops, but for the public scale of providing energy to the people its incredibly unefficiant


Solar panels are not the direction we are heading in for solar power, at least not on a communal level. There are other ways to harness solar power, at least in the appropriate area, which is what alternative enrgies are about. It's not at all about a global fix. We should be thinking on a local scale.
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Dec 31 2008 12:17am
Honda has made a hydrogen fuel cell that can power a car. Hydrogen might be the way if we learn some cheap extraction processes for it.
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Jan 4 2009 01:40am
Quote (Myrddrall9 @ Thu, Dec 11 2008, 12:47am)
That brings up another interesting point that I had picked up somewhere, that a possible incentive for development of solor energy would be to allow for excess energy generated to be resold (private individuals for example would get a payment for their contribution to the grid), this would both result in more effective technology and more effective electrical use (people would try and conserve more electricity for the sake of cash).


solar photovoltaic is currently over 40% efficiency.

solar thermal is the best though.
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Jan 4 2009 12:29pm
h2o cars! Anyone know if this actually works? There are sources for both the possibilty and impossibilty of it so i don't know what to believe:\
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