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May 10 2017 05:04pm
Quote (card_sultan @ May 10 2017 02:27pm)
So do you understand what this means:

https://www.quora.com/Do-airplanes-fly-faster-at-higher-altitudes

“As altitude increases, air temperature decreases. The speed of sound in air varies directly with temperature, so as temperature decreases, so does the true airspeed associated with a given Mach.
As aircraft climb to the transition zone at a constant indicated airspeed (the speed shown on their instruments), their true airspeed (actual speed through the air) increases. This is because as air gets thinner it has less impact on the sensors that drive the airspeed indicators, so for a given indicated airspeed, true airspeed increases with altitude. So, Yes.”

Maybe you can explain it , in your own words, so we know you understand it.


Aircraft CAN fly faster at higher altitudes because there is less wind resistance. To do so however, they have to burn ever much more fuel. Either way, a commercial airliner is not built to withstand the immense stress an aircraft undergoes as it breaks the sound barrier, regardless of what altitude such a scenario might occur. That's because there is an incredible build up in energy on the leading edge of the wing, the nose of the aircraft, and the leading edge of the tail fin as it approaches Mach 1.0. Once the sound barrier is broken, that energy is no longer built up in front of the aircraft, but instead then passes through the aircraft itself. That's why supersonic jets are made with pointed noses and short wings, to minimize this stress. Breaking the speed of sound would likely tear a jumbo jet apart. But getting back to your point, you should note that it discussed "as aircraft climb to the transition zone at a constant indicated airspeed..." but what is important isn't what happens below the transition zone, but above it, where level flight occurs. Above the transition zone, the temperature doesn't change, and the only way to increase speed is by running the engines harder and/or be carried by a favorable tailwind.

Quote (russian @ May 10 2017 05:40pm)
I'm being trolled right now, right? There's just no way. No way.
Santara, is card trolling me?


With any other poster, my response would be an automatic yes. I'm simply not sure that would be the honest response here.

This post was edited by Santara on May 10 2017 05:07pm
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May 10 2017 06:41pm
Quote (Santara @ May 10 2017 01:04pm)
Aircraft CAN fly faster at higher altitudes because there is less wind resistance. To do so however, they have to burn ever much more fuel. Either way, a commercial airliner is not built to withstand the immense stress an aircraft undergoes as it breaks the sound barrier, regardless of what altitude such a scenario might occur. That's because there is an incredible build up in energy on the leading edge of the wing, the nose of the aircraft, and the leading edge of the tail fin as it approaches Mach 1.0. Once the sound barrier is broken, that energy is no longer built up in front of the aircraft, but instead then passes through the aircraft itself. That's why supersonic jets are made with pointed noses and short wings, to minimize this stress. Breaking the speed of sound would likely tear a jumbo jet apart. But getting back to your point, you should note that it discussed "as aircraft climb to the transition zone at a constant indicated airspeed..." but what is important isn't what happens below the transition zone, but above it, where level flight occurs. Above the transition zone, the temperature doesn't change, and the only way to increase speed is by running the engines harder and/or be carried by a favorable tailwind.



With any other poster, my response would be an automatic yes. I'm simply not sure that would be the honest response here.


I'll assume the stresses are from flying through near ground altitude, i think they would be slightly different at high altitudes - but look at "Low Earth orbit" they have no stress and their going 17,500 mph, now i'm not saying its nothing - but it being considerable less is very probable.
You assume this is a normal plane - but its only a single plane that only flies 3 days a week if at all - if it was a 1000 planes - of the modified claim is ridiculous - but we're talking about one single plane and two routes - please stop thinking that it would be impossible to modify a single plane or that if Flat Earth is true -
that the military haven't already had 60 years to think about how to cover up every loose end.

And this gets into the Conspiracy, people saying - "How can million s of people involved in the plane industry keep a secret this big?" I'll tell you how - you dont tell them - info like this is on a need to know basis and no one needs to know - except maybe a handful.

When Eisenhower became President, the Military didn't tell him about Area 51 - because he didn't have the clearance anymore - so please dont tell me compartmentalized info isn't a prominent feature of most organizations.

I see it as very probable, you will always see it as impossible, but no one likes to admit they were fooled, its the hardest thing to do. Flat Earth Is like telling your friend his wife is sleeping with half the town - hes just not going to believe you, best you can hope for is that one day they will wake up.
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May 10 2017 07:07pm
Quote (russian @ May 10 2017 04:40pm)
I'm being trolled right now, right? There's just no way. No way.
Santara, is card trolling me?


yes he is trolling you....

look all the evidence points to card being an Alien.... he is brainwashed by his alien overlords to bring this chaos into the world.... they want us dumb downed, and people believing the earth is flat are dumb downed...

what good does believing in flat earth do for us? nothing.... it did nothing for thousands of years and then scientists came along and proved the earth was sphere and now we have prosperity in science... the aliens don't like that... they like feeling superior....
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May 10 2017 07:31pm
Quote (caswallen @ May 10 2017 03:07pm)
yes he is trolling you....

look all the evidence points to card being an Alien.... he is brainwashed by his alien overlords to bring this chaos into the world.... they want us dumb downed, and people believing the earth is flat are dumb downed...

what good does believing in flat earth do for us? nothing.... it did nothing for thousands of years and then scientists came along and proved the earth was sphere and now we have prosperity in science... the aliens don't like that... they like feeling superior....


of course - this is why Nasa hasn't had manned space missions beyond low Earth orbit since 1972, Aliens fearing pocket calculator technology while the thought of our space dominance was imminent, I mean look at our rocket demonstrations - we know how to control fire real good - clearly far superior to anything those dopey aliens got....
this is why we dont go to Mars, thankfully Caswell you are so brave you will sign up for the first manned mission to Mars, cause its all real right?

This post was edited by card_sultan on May 10 2017 07:32pm
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May 10 2017 07:39pm
Quote (card_sultan @ May 10 2017 07:31pm)
of course - this is why Nasa hasn't had manned space missions beyond low Earth orbit since 1972, Aliens fearing pocket calculator technology while the thought of our space dominance was imminent, I mean look at our rocket demonstrations - we know how to control fire real good - clearly far superior to anything those dopey aliens got....
this is why we dont go to Mars, thankfully Caswell you are so brave you will sign up for the first manned mission to Mars, cause its all real right?


you see how defensive he gets when he's called out on the truth? he dodges all the time... JUST ADMIT YOU ARE AN ALIEN CARD! WE ALL KNOW IT! YOUR ALIEN OVERLORDS WON'T BE PLEASED WILL THEY?
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May 10 2017 07:40pm
Quote (card_sultan @ May 10 2017 07:41pm)
I'll assume the stresses are from flying through near ground altitude, i think they would be slightly different at high altitudes - but look at "Low Earth orbit" they have no stress and their going 17,500 mph, now i'm not saying its nothing - but it being considerable less is very probable.
You assume this is a normal plane - but its only a single plane that only flies 3 days a week if at all - if it was a 1000 planes - of the modified claim is ridiculous - but we're talking about one single plane and two routes - please stop thinking that it would be impossible to modify a single plane or that if Flat Earth is true -
that the military haven't already had 60 years to think about how to cover up every loose end.

And this gets into the Conspiracy, people saying - "How can million s of people involved in the plane industry keep a secret this big?" I'll tell you how - you dont tell them - info like this is on a need to know basis and no one needs to know - except maybe a handful.

When Eisenhower became President, the Military didn't tell him about Area 51 - because he didn't have the clearance anymore - so please dont tell me compartmentalized info isn't a prominent feature of most organizations.

I see it as very probable, you will always see it as impossible, but no one likes to admit they were fooled, its the hardest thing to do. Flat Earth Is like telling your friend his wife is sleeping with half the town - hes just not going to believe you, best you can hope for is that one day they will wake up.


The stresses come from compression waves and shock waves of sound. This will occur regardless of altitude and is the result of compressing sound waves the faster you go. The only suspected 747 to exceed mach 1.0 was China Airlines flight 006, and here's what her tail looked like upon landing:



Low Earth orbit doesn't experience this stress because there is no longer an atmosphere for sound waves to propagate.

Why wouldn't I assume this is a normal plane. There is no record of any airline sized aircraft ever that can combine the necessary attributes to make the JNB/SYD transit that could exceed the sound barrier, carry enough fuel, and carry the number of passengers who somehow manage to leave one point and arrive at the other over a distance of 14,558 miles in the allotted time. To "modify" a plane to make the transit is indeed impossible. Such an aircraft would have to have immensely more fuel capacity. A Boeing 747-400 has a max fuel capacity of 57,000 US gallons, which allows a max range of 7155 nautical miles, assuming it is filled to the brim with fuel. Considering the massively higher fuel burn rate to travel a hypothetical supersonic speed, and the greater distance, you would easily have to more than double the fuel capacity while still being able to load a full load of passengers and cargo, and it still has to get off the ground! I've heard a 747 takeoff for Tokyo from MSP over my house, and you can literally hear the aircraft strain to get into the air. An extra 57,000+ gallons of fuel will add almost 400,000 pounds to the takeoff weight. There's simply no way such an aircraft is possible with current technology.
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May 10 2017 09:45pm
It's remarkable how Santara spends all this time, being weeks and months, arguing with card_sultan.

It is quite clear that Santara has been doing intensive research on aircraft info like airspeed, fuel capacity, atmosphere pressure etc. etc. BUT he won't do any research on Flat Earth.

One can only conclude that Santara is obviously trolling, and excelling at it also.
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May 10 2017 09:56pm
If the Earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off the edge already.

/micdrop
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May 10 2017 09:59pm
Quote (Surfpunk @ May 11 2017 01:26pm)
If the Earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off the edge already.

/micdrop


how many cats live in Antarctica?
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May 11 2017 04:10am
Quote (ChivasRegal @ May 10 2017 10:45pm)
It's remarkable how Santara spends all this time, being weeks and months, arguing with card_sultan.

It is quite clear that Santara has been doing intensive research on aircraft info like airspeed, fuel capacity, atmosphere pressure etc. etc. BUT he won't do any research on Flat Earth.

One can only conclude that Santara is obviously trolling, and excelling at it also.


Son, just move along. Your betters are having a discussion.
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