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Nov 7 2014 08:54pm
Quote (herbdoc @ Nov 8 2014 06:38am)
marijuana doesn't help with PTSD, that's why i started using it and it made me MUCH more anxious and insane. Seriously fuck off lol. You have no idea what you're talking about -


You know they are experimenting with Psilocybin mushrooms and MDMA for PTSD as well? Psilocybin has been used on terminal cancer patients in Switzerland as well, to help them psychologically get passed the stress of their situation and regain perspective over their life.

I am sure the correct cannabis could also help in the same way, it can have the same psychadelic effects. As I stated earlier in the thread people need to understand the variations of the plant and what is suitable for certain people in certain situations, even the legal medical cannabis industry at the moment is not sufficient in this area, they are slowly changing but still we see them selling stupid street named high THC products.

Most people do not know as well but Israel has had a government funded medical cannabis policy for years now, they have actually had scientists working on breeding specific varieties with ideal chemical make up for specific conditions. I remember an article a while back where they even introduced cannabis into a retirement home which reduced the residence need for other medications and improved their quality of life, a story you will never hear in the mainstream media, or what Israel is doing for that matter.

I am sorry you had such a bad experience but with some proper attention to detail and understanding of the endless amount of plant types and what they will do it is much more likely you could have had a positive outcome. Not that I would recommend it for PTSD from war, MDMA sessions with a professional or even Iboga session,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTiXrmDtaGo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR9P7ksKktM

This post was edited by Psychonautica on Nov 7 2014 09:09pm
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Nov 7 2014 08:56pm
Quote (Psychonautica @ Nov 7 2014 09:54pm)
You know they are experimenting with Psilocybin mushrooms and MDMA for PTSD as well? Psilocybin has been used on terminal cancer patients in Switzerland as well, to help them psychologically get passed the stress of their situation and regain perspective over their life.

I am sure the correct cannabis could also help in the same way, it can have the same psychadelic effects. As I stated earlier in the thread people need to understand the variations of the plant and what is suitable for certain people in certain situations, even the legal medical cannabis industry at the moment is not sufficient in this area, they are slowly changing but still we see them selling stupid street named high THC products.

Most people do not know as well but Israel has had a government funded medical cannabis policy for years now, they have actually had scientists working on breeding specific varieties with ideal chemical make up for specific conditions. I remember an article a while back where they even introduced cannabis into a retirement home which reduced the residence need for other medications and improved their quality of life, a story you will never hear in the mainstream media, or what Israel is doing for that matter.

I am sorry you had such a bad experience but with some proper attention to detail and understanding of the endless amount of plant types and what they will do it is much more likely you could have had a positive outcome. Not that I would recommend it for PTSD from war, MDMA sessions with a professional or even Iboga session,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTiXrmDtaGo


The effects can differ from person to person as well, and it probably is just not suited to treat certain people.

Although I would suggest trying multiple strains before writing it off. As you basically said, the chemical make-up of each strain is different and will have different effects.

This post was edited by TheCrimson on Nov 7 2014 08:58pm
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Nov 7 2014 09:03pm
Quote (TheCrimson @ Nov 7 2014 09:30pm)
As a longtime smoker of marijuana, and having many friends that do so on a daily basis, these are what I believe to be the pro's and con's as per my personal experience over the years and confirmed data that has been released over the years. I may have forgotten some pro's or con's, feel free to comment with suggestions.


Pro's of Marijuana:
1) Use as a pain medication without physical addiction as opposed to opiates.
2) To stimulate the urge to eat in patients with medical conditions that result in reduced appetite. (AIDS & HIV wasting for instance)
3) To stimulate economic growth through taxation and new job opportunities.
4) Nowhere near as harmful as alcohol.
5) No loss/impairment of motor control.
6) People that smoke marijuana tend to be less aggressive and more accepting of others.
7) Studies show that marijuana does not damage your lungs in the same capacity as tobacco products, some studies show that it actually cannot damage more than 1% of your lung capacity and is even used to treat asthmatic patients.
8) Marijuana has multiple industrial uses that do not pertain to the actual use of the drug, such as hemp.
9) Can improve shortterm focus
10) Used to treat (Not cure, treat) Glaucoma, epilepsy, Hepatitis C, Tourette Syndrome, Nausea, Gastrointestinal Disorders, Arthritis, Alzheimer's, Asthma & Breathing Disorders, Muscle Spasms, Multiple Sclerosis, Migraines, Psychological Conditions such as depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and psychosis.
11) You CANNOT overdose on marijuana. As someone who has smoked enough to knock out a bull moose in a single night I can testify to the truth of this statement.
12) People say stoners are "burnt out" or stupid from extended use of marijuana. All of the people I know that smoke marijuana are extremely intelligent people with higher GPA's than the average person and plenty of intellectual intuitiveness. I've personally smoked marijuana for 15 years, and have scored in the top 10 percentile in the U.S. on every aptitude test i've taken. I've had a 34 on the ACT, 95 on the ASVAB, and one question from perfect on an aptitude test for industrial engineering known as the Missouri Manufacturing WINS program. I was high when I took those tests.

Cons:
1) Commonly misconstrued as a gateway drug, I believe this has more to do with a person's associations than it does with the Marijuana.
2) Marijuana can actually cause depression/anxiety/heart palpitations in certain people, and this also differs with the strain of marijuana being smoked/consumed, but this is common with many drugs and differs from person to person.




Lastly, I would like to show this chart of FDA-approved drug related deaths and marijuana related deaths. It should prove my point that marijuana is not harmful.

http://i.imgur.com/wyqStAV.png

Some of you may say that this is an unfair chart, as it puts 17 different FDA drugs against marijuana. But if you noticed, there are ZERO recorded deaths that occured as a direct result of marijuana. Also, if you divide the total number of FDA approved drug related deaths by 17, the number is still higher than the total of deaths that are related to marijuana use at the time of death.

Note that being a secondary suspect in a death means that, for instance, If i smoked a joint, walked outside of my house and got shot, it would be a secondary suspect in relation to my death.


Ridiciulous bias, you really ought to reconsider your stance because it would be an understatement to call you a marijuana shill.

1) Use as a pain medication without physical addiction as opposed to opiates. Significantly more mental impairment than opiates.
4) Nowhere near as harmful as alcohol. It not being bad as one of the world's most dangerous drug is a pro?
5) No loss/impairment of motor control. False.
6) People that smoke marijuana tend to be less aggressive and more accepting of others. False.
7) Studies show that marijuana does not damage your lungs in the same capacity as tobacco products, some studies show that it actually cannot damage more than 1% of your lung capacity and is even used to treat asthmatic patients.Many, many studies that show the oppsite.
9) Can improve shortterm focus. Can also hinder short-term focus.
10) Used to treat (Not cure, treat) Glaucoma, epilepsy, Hepatitis C, Tourette Syndrome, Nausea, Gastrointestinal Disorders, Arthritis, Alzheimer's, Asthma & Breathing Disorders, Muscle Spasms, Multiple Sclerosis, Migraines, Psychological Conditions such as depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and psychosis. Can also exacerbate tourette syndrome, Alzheimer's, asthma and breathing disorders, migraines, depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and psychosis.
12) People say stoners are "burnt out" or stupid from extended use of marijuana. All of the people I know that smoke marijuana are extremely intelligent people with higher GPA's than the average person and plenty of intellectual intuitiveness. I've personally smoked marijuana for 15 years, and have scored in the top 10 percentile in the U.S. on every aptitude test i've taken. I've had a 34 on the ACT, 95 on the ASVAB, and one question from perfect on an aptitude test for industrial engineering known as the Missouri Manufacturing WINS program. I was high when I took those tests.You being of above average intelligence and scoring well on standardized tests is meaningless. I scored a 35 on the ACT and a 2160 on the SAT while using marijuana, this doesn't mean it doesn't impair thinking.

I'm not demonizing marijuana, but your opinions are so wildly biased in favor of it such that you are blind to its potential harms.

Is marijuana physically dangerous? Barely at all, it's one of the safest drugs. It still can have very severe psychological and cognitive repercussions that need to be taken seriously.

This post was edited by Voyaging on Nov 7 2014 09:04pm
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Nov 7 2014 09:06pm
Quote (TheCrimson @ Nov 8 2014 12:56pm)
The effects can differ from person to person as well, and it probably is just not suited to treat certain people.

Although I would suggest trying multiple strains before writing it off. As you basically said, the chemical make-up of each strain is different and will have different effects.


Yeah, I should state I agree with this to a large extent, it will just not suit some peoples psychological disposition, whether there is also genetic disposition who knows, I think it is more the former.

As others have stated as well, setting and state of mind have much more influence on the outcome than most realise too.

It is all too obvious though from reading so many peoples 'horror' stories of going into panic (psychedelic ego loss), ending up in emergency thinking they are dying is due to plant type, over consumption and total ignorance of the plant. If most of these people had the right guidance and a much more user friendly plant they would be left with a totally difference experience and opinion.

This post was edited by Psychonautica on Nov 7 2014 09:07pm
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Nov 7 2014 09:11pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Nov 7 2014 10:03pm)
Is marijuana physically dangerous? Barely at all, it's one of the safest drugs. It still can have very severe psychological and cognitive repercussions that need to be taken seriously.


You refered to alcohol as "One of the worlds most dangerous drugs" yet it is a legal drug. This was my point. Why is alcohol legal yet marijuana is illegal if alcohol is so much more dangerous? Makes no sense.

As a former opiate addict I have to disagree with you saying that marijuana impairs more than opiates, opiates are far more dangerous and detrimental to your physical health.

People that smoke marijuana tend to be more laid back and relaxed, yet you said this was false, obviously it differs from person to person but for the majority it is true.

I revised the motor control point, it gives VERY LITTLE motor control impairment, less than i've experienced with other drugs and especially alcohol.

My point with the testing section was that marijuana does not effect your intelligence. Your intelligence is what it is.

Any drug can have "very severe psychological and cognitive repercussions", I personally believe that marijuana is the least harmful of them all, it is certainly less harmful than alcohol in my experience, and FAR less harmful than opiates. I've known (some of them not personally, just people I went to high school with or people from my small town) 15 people that i can remember, some of them good friends or family, and im sure there are probably more from my community, that have died from opiate and alcohol abuse.

I do not know anyone that has had any harmful repercussions from smoking marijuana. I've never heard of anyone overdosing on it, i've never heard of anyone randomly developing schizophrenia from it. I've never heard of anyone being harmed in any way from smoking marijuana (Aside from temporary anxiety or palpitations, lack of understanding about the drug and environmental influences can cause these problems, as well as the chemical make-up of the particular strain). Maybe this has something to do with my bias? Seems like it is a far less harmful alternative to some of the FDA approved drugs that our government allows people to take.

This post was edited by TheCrimson on Nov 7 2014 09:24pm
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Nov 7 2014 09:24pm
Quote (TheCrimson @ Nov 7 2014 10:11pm)
You refered to alcohol as "One of the worlds most dangerous drugs" yet it is a legal drug. This was my point. Why is alcohol legal yet marijuana is illegal? Makes no sense.

As a former opiate addict I have to disagree with you saying that marijuana impairs more than opiates, opiates are far more dangerous.

People that smoke marijuana tend to be more laid back and relaxed, yet you said this was false, obviously it differs from person to person but for the majority it is true.

I revised the motor control point, it gives VERY LITTLE motor control impairment, less than i've experienced with other drugs and especially alcohol.

My point with the testing section was that marijuana does not effect your intelligence. Your intelligence is what it is.

Any drug can have very severe psychological and cognitive repercussions, I personally believe that marijuana is the least harmful of them all, it is certainly less harmful than alcohol in my experience, and FAR less harmful than opiates. I've known (some of them not personally, just people I went to high school with or people from my small town) 15 people that i can remember, some of them good friends or family, and im sure there are probably more from my community, that have died from opiate and alcohol abuse.

I do not know anyone that has had any harmful repercussions from smoking marijuana. I've never heard of anyone overdosing on it, i've never heard of anyone randomly developing schizophrenia from it. I've never heard of anyone being harmed in any way from smoking marijuana (Aside from temporary anxiety or palpitations, lack of understanding about the drug and environmental influences can cause these problems, as well as the chemical make-up of the particular strain). Maybe this has something to do with my bias? Seems like it is a far less harmful alternative to some of the FDA approved drugs that our government allows people to take.

Read my posts. I've personally been harmed from it.


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Nov 7 2014 09:25pm
Quote (herbdoc @ Nov 7 2014 08:24pm)
Read my posts. I've personally been harmed from it.


when it's legal it will be easier to process and people can just eat it.
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Nov 7 2014 09:30pm
Quote (herbdoc @ Nov 7 2014 10:24pm)
Read my posts. I've personally been harmed from it.


Why on earth did you hold it in for so long, of course that's going to cause more scarring and damage to your lungs, you're breathing in hot ass smoke. I smoke 2 packs a day and have been for 15 years along with marijuana (I quit smoking marijuana except on rare occasions, i've maybe smoked 2-3 times in the last 4 months) and I haven't had a lung collapse or coughed up any resin yet. I say yet though. I would like to quit smoking cigarettes those things are just straight poison.

Quote (Comus @ Nov 7 2014 10:25pm)
when it's legal it will be easier to process and people can just eat it.


Comus has a good point
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Nov 7 2014 09:31pm
While there has been no direct link from marijuana to lung cancer - meaning, you could find studies that DO link it to lung cancer and studies that DO NOT link it... it certainly causes and has been linked other major issues with the body including Bullous Lung Disease and Testicular Cancer.


Testicular Cancer -
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cncr.24159/full
http://www.cancer.org/cancer/news/study-links-marijuana-use-to-testicular-cancer
http://www.medpagetoday.com/HematologyOncology/OtherCancers/12802 -- The study was supported by the NIH and the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center


Bullous Lung Disease
http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/747982_4
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1360494/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080123104017.htm -- study finds that the development of bullous lung disease occurs in marijuana smokers approximately 20 years earlier than tobacco smokers.


Lung Cancer-
cannabis smoking was significantly associated with more than a twofold risk (hazard ratio 2.12, 95 % CI 1.08-4.14) of developing lung cancer over the 40-year follow-up period, even after statistical adjustment for baseline tobacco use, alcohol use, respiratory conditions, and socioeconomic status.
Source - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23846283



This post was edited by herbdoc on Nov 7 2014 09:32pm
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Nov 7 2014 09:37pm
RIP lol I got it backwards.. sorry i'm eating dinner lol I'll come back in a bit and read them

This post was edited by TheCrimson on Nov 7 2014 09:40pm
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