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Nov 11 2013 09:49pm
I am a mathematician, not a physicist, so take this with a grain of salt. The wiki article on quantum entanglement looks pretty solid to me. I'm no expert, but I doubt you will be able to get much more correct information on what entanglement is (and, more importantly, isn't) without at least understanding the basic structure of a separable Hilbert space. I really hesitate to recommend reading popular treatments of quantum mechanics. The field is counter-intuitive and virtually all of our understanding comes from the math. If you want to learn more about it, learn math.

To your second question, yes this is an observable, well tested and thoroughly verified effect. That said, quantum mechanics is itself 'just a theory' so take from that what you will.

For the record, quantum mechanics does not say that anything is possible. Go look up no-go theorems if you don't believe me.
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Nov 11 2013 09:56pm
Quote (darkfire @ Nov 11 2013 09:49pm)
I am a mathematician, not a physicist, so take this with a grain of salt.  The wiki article on quantum entanglement looks pretty solid to me.  I'm no expert, but I doubt you will be able to get much more correct information on what entanglement is (and, more importantly, isn't) without at least understanding the basic structure of a separable Hilbert space.  I really hesitate to recommend reading popular treatments of quantum mechanics.  The field is counter-intuitive and virtually all of our understanding comes from the math.  If you want to learn more about it, learn math.

To your second question, yes this is an observable, well tested and thoroughly verified effect.  That said, quantum mechanics is itself 'just a theory' so take from that what you will.

For the record, quantum mechanics does not say that anything is possible.  Go look up no-go theorems if you don't believe me.


I guess it's just the theory itself that intrigues me. Im not going to try and prove or disprove it. Just understand the concept so i can look for examples of it and such in my own life. Im assuming no-go theorems are theories that have been disproven? more specifically i would assume they have been mathematically disproven? I have no experience on this subject so i believe u but actually looking up how they disproved some of them does interest me so i may have to look some of those up as well. thank you
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Nov 11 2013 10:06pm
Quote (PonyKiller @ Nov 11 2013 10:56pm)
I guess it's just the theory itself that intrigues me. Im not going to try and prove or disprove it. Just understand the concept so i can look for examples of it and such in my own life. Im assuming no-go theorems are theories that have been disproven? more specifically i would assume they have been mathematically disproven? I have no experience on this subject so i believe u but actually looking up how they disproved some of them does interest me so i may have to look some of those up as well. thank you


I really do understand what you're looking for. I spent a long time looking for the same thing about any quantum mechanical topic. The problem is that unless you want an extremely superficial and slightly misleading explanation, you need a mountain of math. It's not that people don't want to explain this stuff simply, it just can't be done. The math is genuinely as simple as it gets while still being correct. If you're fine with the misleading, superficial treatment then there are plenty of popular science books on this effect. I won't actually recommend any of them though :)

The no-go theorem comment was directed at another poster. Regardless, a no-go theorem is a result saying that some effect is inconsistent with current physical theory. It isn't really possible to empirically prove that something cannot exist, so the best we can do is come up with theory, test it, then draw conclusions about those things that are inconsistent with the theory.
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Nov 11 2013 10:34pm
Quote (darkfire @ 12 Nov 2013 03:49)
I am a mathematician, not a physicist, ...


don't forget that theoretical physics (as you indicated yourself in your most recent post) is mainly a spin-off from mathematics (but don't tell physicists about that ;) )
do you (had to) have an application field of maths as minor?
my available choices were economics ( :rolleyes: ), astronomy and theorectical physics - i took the latter

Quote (PonyKiller @ 12 Nov 2013 03:56)
... so i can look for examples of it and such in my own life. ...


you will find none
or you would have to go to a facility like cern
but for some connection to 'real life' read the stanford link i gave above

and as per 'darkfire's comment on popular science books on those (complicated) topics, rather stay away from them or you will gain a misunderstanding just like 'sirfrozt'
but back to the op once more: concept/model/theory, name it what you want it - it represent the best knowledge/explanation we have so far
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Nov 11 2013 10:49pm
Start with Leonard Susskind and his lectures on youtube through Stanford. If you area actually interested and really want to learn, there are TONS of resources available online.

What math are you in now? Generally you will need linear algebra and advanced calculus (gradients, integrals, partial differentiation, etc) to solve problems. The understanding of the theory comes from the ability to solve problems. Like many has already said, a true understanding of quantum mechanics can only come from an understanding of the mathematics, and tbh if anyone tells you they truely understand quantum mechanics they probably dont know much.

Physics as a whole is extremely interesting. Wiki pages for physics is generally very reliable. If you ever want suggestions for resources shoot me a pm and I can recommend some textbooks or websites to help you out.

This post was edited by khemist on Nov 11 2013 10:50pm
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Nov 11 2013 11:59pm
Quote (brmv @ Nov 12 2013 03:11am)
why did you have to prove that you have no clue?  :bonk:


why do you still try so hard to seem smart? :wacko:

Quote (darkfire @ Nov 12 2013 03:49am)
I am a mathematician, not a physicist, so take this with a grain of salt.  The wiki article on quantum entanglement looks pretty solid to me.  I'm no expert, but I doubt you will be able to get much more correct information on what entanglement is (and, more importantly, isn't) without at least understanding the basic structure of a separable Hilbert space.  I really hesitate to recommend reading popular treatments of quantum mechanics.  The field is counter-intuitive and virtually all of our understanding comes from the math.  If you want to learn more about it, learn math.

To your second question, yes this is an observable, well tested and thoroughly verified effect.  That said, quantum mechanics is itself 'just a theory' so take from that what you will.

For the record, quantum mechanics does not say that anything is possible.  Go look up no-go theorems if you don't believe me.


at its base as far as ive read and seen it still seems to me as if anything IS possible. no go theorems merely illustrate the fact that quantum theory is incomplete and can therefore not in itself BE quantified. no i dont really believe in hidden variables but that being said, if you look at schrodinger there is such a thing as being in two states at the same time thus illustrating that just about anything is possible. I am however open to discussion, disagreement and information so long as it is given neither condescendingly nor sarcastically. :D

This post was edited by sirfrozt on Nov 12 2013 12:12am
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Nov 12 2013 12:22am
Quote (sirfrozt @ 12 Nov 2013 05:59)
why do you still try so hard to seem smart?  :wacko:

not trying and i do not need to try, i have proof of it  :)

at its base as far as ive read and seen it still seems to me as if anything IS possible. no go theorems merely illustrate the fact that quantum theory is incomplete and can therefore not in itself BE quantified. no i dont really believe in hidden variables but that being said, if you look at  schrodinger there is such a thing as being in two states at the same time thus illustrating that just about anything is possible. I am however open to discussion, disagreement and information so long as it is given neither condescendingly nor sarcastically. :D


you might try to read a little bit more after gaining the mathematical grounding (as 'darkfire' rightfully noted) to understand it

condescending? the following wasn't a try at it?

Quote (sirfrozt @ 12 Nov 2013 03:04)
this guy is trying too hard to sound smart.
...


:rolleyes:
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Nov 12 2013 12:34am
Quote (brmv @ Nov 12 2013 06:22am)
you might try to read a little bit more after gaining the mathematical grounding (as 'darkfire' rightfully noted) to understand it

condescending? the following wasn't a try at it?



:rolleyes:


Touche' sounds like im the one trying too hard to seem smart. I WILL read more. I honestly find the whole subject fascinating and still feel anything is possible but I will keep an open mind.
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Nov 12 2013 02:47am
man I wish this shit made sense to me
all we did in our first two quantum mechanics classes was math, math, and moar maff!
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Nov 12 2013 03:05am
Quote (sirfrozt @ Nov 11 2013 08:04pm)
according to quantum physics ANYTHING is possible.
no


Quote (khemist @ Nov 11 2013 09:49pm)
Start with Leonard Susskind and his lectures on youtube through Stanford. If you area actually interested and really want to learn, there are TONS of resources available online.

What math are you in now? Generally you will need linear algebra and advanced calculus (gradients, integrals, partial differentiation, etc) to solve problems.

this^^^

This post was edited by Azrad on Nov 12 2013 03:09am
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