where is it?

CAT scans. It's just electrical impulses firing in the brain. Being unsatisfied with the truth of the matter doesn't mean it's any less true. So like I said, try again.

my point is science has been based in materialism. you need models and evidence to make up theories. Many people astral project but how would they prove it to you? Many people have had dreams of the future and had out of body experiences but our understandings aren't advanced enough to measure and understand the nature of our consiousness. science is great but lacking in the department of consciousness.

"Being unsatisfied with the truth of the matter doesn't mean it's any less true." this applies equally for you. just because science doesn't understand certain things yet, you want to soothe your ego by saying it is probably is not real when we both dont know. if you use science open mindedly to try to reveal the mysteries of the universe then it's a great tool, but if people blindly follow and believe only what the scientific community currently believes then it kind of just makes it like a dogmatic religion

This post was edited by frankthetank00 on Mar 18 2011 07:41pm

how is anything immaterial even relevant to discussion or speculation? simply by trying to define something immaterial, or explain an immaterial process (this thread) you are taking a scientific approach. you're 'modeling' something that can't be modeled because it is completely subjective, and for that reason it's irrelevant. doesn't pertain to science, doesn't pertain to an objective reality.

if someone claims they had an out-of-body experience that just tells me they trip plenty of acid, suffer from at least a mild psychosis, or are making it up.

The vast majority of these predictions have all been wrong. The ones that ended up having some truth contained in them only had some truth because the predictions were extremely vague and could have been applied to ANY generic event (e.g. Nostradamus).


Consciousness is what it is. It's the ability of people to think, and thinking is purely a series of electrical and chemical processes that go on inside the brain. Astral projections and seeing the future is unverifiable, untestable, completely without evidence, and purely faith-based.


Just because there are two possibilities (they are real or they are unreal) does not mean these two options are equally likely. The fact of the matter is that it's far more likely that they don't exist than they do. For example, neither of us can prove whether or not there is a tea cup currently in orbit around the planet Mars, and yet I feel 100% confident in saying that there isn't.


This is where you're wrong. Open-mindedness doesn't mean blindly believing in everything that is unproven. It means that you don't blindly cling to something when presented with information that disproves your previously held beliefs. The fact that you're believing in something that has no evidence means that you're believing in it on faith. THAT is the dogmatic religion. By contrast, I do not have faith in the existence of astral projection. That is not the same thing as having faith that astral projection does not exist.

funny cuz i could actually show you.. My best friends a huge skeptic too and i dont blame him. until you experience it you wont believe it but not really a big deal. you can go through life without it and be fine. some people are open/ready for it and some aren't. much love to you

I have seen the future in my dreams before. My future, but it's more like deja vu if anything. Just a glimps of a scene that has played out in my life that I have seen before in a dream. Happens to me every once in a while.
Has this happened to anyone else?

This post was edited by Drewman on Mar 19 2011 01:50am

yea thats what i was refering to but he thought i was talking about prophecies, but who knows maybe they work in a similar way. its happened to me randomly too. Many people experience it and other phenomenon but it is subjective, and since we dont understand it some people rationalize it by saying you probly just did too much acid or made it up. It seems to me that subjectivity of individual conscious experience is just as valid as a reality as materialism. After all.. they form a balance and equally play upon one another. Your dreams may effect your life and vice versa. the matter that makes up this universe is ultimately illusory to us if you subscribe to quantum physics. By declaring that anything is even real or unreal is always relative to our perception. Many dont realize that we are also consciously asleep to what actually exists while we are physcially awake. Our physical senses decifer only a limited vibrational range of energies to perceive the outside physical universe as images, smells, feelings. Creating the illusion of solidity and separation. our waking state and dream state are linked by our consciousness which are both illusory in nature. so why judge something as real or fake if there is no evidence against it. You don't have to believe in it but by doubting it you rule out the possibility. isn't this the point of inception?.. that waking state and dream state are both real. seriously it was a cool movie and i think this is the message but if anyone has another view lemme know lol.

This post was edited by frankthetank00 on Mar 19 2011 02:35am

Not currently and yes.

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I've died a few times in REM. At least two, manifested extreme physical pain, after I woke up for 15 minutes to an hour later.

This post was edited by WhirlingDervish on Mar 19 2011 02:40am

So do it.