not exactly... I meant that after the big bang, it keeps going for infinity

And in an infinite loop like that, the loop itself would have no origin. Nothing but existance is causing a loop of that kind to exist, and there for existance is a fundamental part of that and the loop depends on that. The loop is infinite and has no origin, then existance doesnt need it either. Just like the calander we can assign meaning to parts of the loop, but it keeps going and never had an offical start point.

Well if it's a loop, you don't mean it restarts at some point? Or do you just mean it goes on and on and on?

Dont you see that a "restart" is us assigning a restart point on the loop. I could say the restart is at a different point on the loop, and neither of us would be right.

The loop is infinite. It has always existed and will keep going to infinity; this is all assuming such a loop exists

This post was edited by Toothfariy on Dec 23 2010 04:11pm

Okay, No I wasn't being clear. I mean it's a literal circle. One second.



Per the image, time starts, goes through its full course, and reaches the "end", which is the start.

you're not getting it...

You are the one who placed that start point on there. The loop did not decide when its start point was, you did
We can assign all the points on there we want, but they mean nothing in reality, just in our minds it is a significant portion of the loop.

The loop just keeps going regardless if that point is there. If that loop happens, it is a pattern we can see and analyze it, but that still doesnt mean that it had an origin or starting point

Okay.. remove the start point.. would you agree with an end point? Or do you believe that it just keeps going?

I'm strongly of the opinion that it had to start somewhere, and end somewhere, or else it IS a loop, but it still starts at Point A.

im saying that u can call whatever point on that cirle whatever you want, to the loop it holds no significance. It us, it would; but the mental note of the start point plays no role in the reality of the loop

The loop would keep going and going no matter what. I dont see why its so hard to believe that it has always been there.
I dont think this "loop" rly exists, but its an interesting idea

I think that everything has always existed and will always exist. Time has been going from infinity to infinity forever. Its hard to wrap ur brain around it, we always want to assign values to it and make it managable; but its not. I so no reason everything couldnt have always existed with any origin or cause

There is absolutely a theory that describes exactly what you're talking about, Destabilization, where the universe will expand to a point before expansion stops and it starts contracting again, ultimately ending where it starts then Big Banging out again. It's called the Big Crunch Theory. I'm pretty sure scientists have calculated that the mass of the universe required for gravity to overcome the current expansion and end up causing the Big Crunch is actually much higher than the measured mass of the universe (including dark matter/energy).

As for time "before" the Big Bang? There was no time before the Big Bang. Time itself began its existence at the Big Bang. Like Toothfariy said, that's t = 0.

i also said the time before the big bang was t = approaching negative infinity...

we dont know the origin and we most likely never will. Philsophically we can posite that everything has just always existed

This post was edited by Toothfariy on Dec 23 2010 05:14pm

what came first the chicken or the egg