d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Science, Technology & Nature > Global Cooling
Prev1234Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Banned
Posts: 2,806
Joined: Apr 17 2009
Gold: 0.00
Warn: 20%
Jun 10 2009 01:42pm
Quote (WhirlingDervish @ Wed, Jun 10 2009, 04:55pm)
That would be in the temperature graph you didn't bother to look at. O_o


the one i posted and the one you posted are identical

again, where do you see a downturn in temperature?
Member
Posts: 61,687
Joined: Mar 14 2006
Gold: 28.77
Jun 10 2009 02:26pm
Dervish, you are just eating Republican talking points for breakfast here.

Look at the graph - it looks just like a corporate fiscal growth graph. There are up and down periods, but the trend is always growth; you can see the fluctuations up and down even as the graphs trends upwards. Just because the last year has been a downwards slope doesn't mean the trend of the chart is not still a growth trend. In fact, look how many years and how far down the trend would have to go to indicate a sustained cooling or downward growth period.
Banned
Posts: 2,806
Joined: Apr 17 2009
Gold: 0.00
Warn: 20%
Jun 10 2009 02:29pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ Thu, Jun 11 2009, 06:26am)
Dervish, you are just eating Republican talking points for breakfast here.

Look at the graph - it looks just like a corporate fiscal growth graph. There are up and down periods, but the trend is always growth; you can see the fluctuations up and down even as the graphs trends upwards. Just because the last year has been a downwards slope doesn't mean the trend of the chart is not still a growth trend. In fact, look how many years and how far down the trend would have to go to indicate a sustained cooling or downward growth period.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cycle
Member
Posts: 5,901
Joined: Dec 13 2005
Gold: 2,508.53
Jun 11 2009 12:27am
Ok wait up!

You guys often seem like you just want to go hating but I see your perspective here.

First, I am not here to argue the point but to discuss it. :)

Second, I was hoping to see post from many viewpoints to possibly actually learn more about the subject. :D

Third, I wish to weigh the information so I may better understand why people keep telling me "Were all gonna freeze!"

So far from what I am reading on my own, I am oddly enough almost in agreement with you at this time. :lol:

=======================

Quote (Dr_Grignard71 @ Wed, Jun 10 2009, 02:42pm)
the one i posted and the one you posted are identical

again, where do you see a downturn in temperature?


I think I have a couple years on you. :D

It's slight, local and dose not seem to conclude anything even vaguely let alone absolutely so far.

If anyone has better data please share.

=======================



If wiki's are allowed here :D , there seems to be a correlation between sunspot activity and short ice age like cooling periods on the planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_ice_age

This is also decent reading for others for understanding under the worst conditions it is not likely possible this would lead to an epic ice age.

http://www.homepage.montana.edu/~geol445/hyperglac/time1/milankov.htm

=======================

Quote (inkanddagger @ Wed, Jun 10 2009, 03:26pm)
Dervish, you are just eating Republican talking points for breakfast here.


I tossed in a nice popular mechanics article as well. :P

=======================

Currently I am at this scenario seems a lot less likely but would be worse than the "global warming" theory.

This post was edited by WhirlingDervish on Jun 11 2009 12:28am
Member
Posts: 2,811
Joined: Jan 28 2008
Gold: 0.00
Jun 11 2009 10:08am
interesting for sure
Member
Posts: 61,687
Joined: Mar 14 2006
Gold: 28.77
Jun 11 2009 10:30am
Quote (WhirlingDervish @ Thu, Jun 11 2009, 02:27am)
Ok wait up!

You guys often seem like you just want to go hating but I see your perspective here.

First, I am not here to argue the point but to discuss it. :)

Second, I was hoping to see post from many viewpoints to possibly actually learn more about the subject. :D

Third, I wish to weigh the information so I may better understand why people keep telling me "Were all gonna freeze!"

So far from what I am reading on my own, I am oddly enough almost in agreement with you at this time. :lol:

=======================



I think I have a couple years on you. :D

It's slight, local and dose not seem to conclude anything even vaguely let alone absolutely so far.

If anyone has better data please share.

=======================

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Sunspot_Numbers.svg/350px-Sunspot_Numbers.svg.png

If wiki's are allowed here :D , there seems to be a correlation between sunspot activity and short ice age like cooling periods on the planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_ice_age

This is also decent reading for others for understanding under the worst conditions it is not likely possible this would lead to an epic ice age.

http://www.homepage.montana.edu/~geol445/hyperglac/time1/milankov.htm

=======================



I tossed in a nice popular mechanics article as well. :P

=======================

Currently I am at this scenario seems a lot less likely but would be worse than the "global warming" theory.



@ bolded: Global warming will cause billions of ton of freshwater ice to dissolve into the salt ocean, diverting the jet stream, or even stopping it. One of the theories is that cold air from the arctic and antarctic, after the jet stream stops carrying warmer air to northern areas, will be redistributed around the globe...so the temperature will trend towards a cooling in both hemispheres but will trend towards warming at the poles as well as the equator. The net trend, because entropy always increases in a closed system (which the earth and its atmosphere basically are), is that the globe will trend towards warmth; this means that localized climate change, although it may trend toward cooling at most latitudes, will be the effect of a net trend of global warming.
Member
Posts: 14,099
Joined: Jul 13 2006
Gold: 83.30
Jun 11 2009 12:10pm
Quote (WhirlingDervish @ Thu, Jun 11 2009, 06:27am)
Ok wait up!

You guys often seem like you just want to go hating but I see your perspective here.

First, I am not here to argue the point but to discuss it. :)

Second, I was hoping to see post from many viewpoints to possibly actually learn more about the subject. :D

Third, I wish to weigh the information so I may better understand why people keep telling me "Were all gonna freeze!"

So far from what I am reading on my own, I am oddly enough almost in agreement with you at this time. :lol:

=======================



I think I have a couple years on you. :D

It's slight, local and dose not seem to conclude anything even vaguely let alone absolutely so far.

If anyone has better data please share.

=======================

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Sunspot_Numbers.svg/350px-Sunspot_Numbers.svg.png

If wiki's are allowed here :D , there seems to be a correlation between sunspot activity and short ice age like cooling periods on the planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_ice_age

This is also decent reading for others for understanding under the worst conditions it is not likely possible this would lead to an epic ice age.

http://www.homepage.montana.edu/~geol445/hyperglac/time1/milankov.htm

=======================



I tossed in a nice popular mechanics article as well. :P

=======================

Currently I am at this scenario seems a lot less likely but would be worse than the "global warming" theory.



Whilst the influence of the sun on the earth's climate is large, there are more variables than just that. The angle of the rays, the distance of the sun to the earth etc. We are actually still in one of the cooler periods of the earth, which could lead to an ice age (IE, decrease in sun activity -> more snow -> more reflection of sun rays -> more snow etc etc. The only way for such a cycle to be broken might be by a great eruption of volcano(es) of some sort IE Yellowstone-size) . Having ice on both poles is very unique aswell, hasn't happened a lot in our earth's history. If we look at the history, we find that the earth has been warming up and cooling down in cycles. We are still in the 'cool' part of the cycle. If the climate would again go back to ice age, it might go even more drastically than the ice ages +-10.000 and 50.000 years ago, but not up to the drama of the Permafrost (IE earth is the biggest snowball ever seen).
Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Oct 15 2007
Gold: 100.00
Jun 11 2009 03:02pm
the world works on a series of cycles such as al-nino and la-nina (1-5 year cycles) and cycles that are greater that that (10-100 years). such as a 20 year heating/cooling period.

but we also know that when the ambient temperature of the earth heated up to 73 degrees F (even the water on the poles, thats like swimming temperature) 75-90% of the planet turned into scrub and brush, most life was pushed to the poles.
yea.....we KNOW because.....how else would alligators be frozen in the ice cap?
Member
Posts: 5,901
Joined: Dec 13 2005
Gold: 2,508.53
Jun 11 2009 04:43pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ Thu, Jun 11 2009, 11:30am)
@ bolded: Global warming will cause billions of ton of freshwater ice to dissolve into the salt ocean, diverting the jet stream, or even stopping it. One of the theories is that cold air from the arctic and antarctic, after the jet stream stops carrying warmer air to northern areas, will be redistributed around the globe...so the temperature will trend towards a cooling in both hemispheres but will trend towards warming at the poles as well as the equator. The net trend, because entropy always increases in a closed system (which the earth and its atmosphere basically are), is that the globe will trend towards warmth; this means that localized climate change, although it may trend toward cooling at most latitudes, will be the effect of a net trend of global warming.


Sure that is the idea of global climate change except I thought ocean currents were more important than the jet stream. The global cooling people I'm hearing from are of the thinking this lack of solar activity may cause the cooling.

=======================

Quote (balrog66 @ Thu, Jun 11 2009, 01:10pm)
Whilst the influence of the sun on the earth's climate is large, there are more variables than just that. The angle of the rays, the distance of the sun to the earth etc. We are actually still in one of the cooler periods of the earth, which could lead to an ice age (IE, decrease in sun activity -> more snow -> more reflection of sun rays -> more snow etc etc. The only way for such a cycle to be broken might be by a great eruption of volcano(es) of some sort IE Yellowstone-size) . Having ice on both poles is very unique aswell, hasn't happened a lot in our earth's history. If we look at the history, we find that the earth has been warming up and cooling down in cycles. We are still in the 'cool' part of the cycle. If the climate would again go back to ice age, it might go even more drastically than the ice ages +-10.000 and 50.000 years ago, but not up to the drama of the Permafrost (IE earth is the biggest snowball ever seen).


In the past it would seem excessive volcanic activity helps cool the planet not warm it up.

Do you have a reference for the pole ice statement?

========================


Quote (XSergeX @ Thu, Jun 11 2009, 04:02pm)
the world works on a series of cycles such as al-nino and la-nina (1-5 year cycles) and cycles that are greater that that (10-100 years). such as a 20 year heating/cooling period.

but we also know that when the ambient temperature of the earth heated up to 73 degrees F (even the water on the poles, thats like swimming temperature) 75-90% of the planet turned into scrub and brush, most life was pushed to the poles.
yea.....we KNOW because.....how else would alligators be frozen in the ice cap?


Do you have references on this information?
Member
Posts: 61,687
Joined: Mar 14 2006
Gold: 28.77
Jun 11 2009 06:00pm
Quote (WhirlingDervish @ Thu, Jun 11 2009, 06:43pm)
Sure that is the idea of global climate change except I thought ocean currents were more important than the jet stream. The global cooling people I'm hearing from are of the thinking this lack of solar activity may cause the cooling.

=======================



In the past it would seem excessive volcanic activity helps cool the planet not warm it up.

Do you have a reference for the pole ice statement?

========================




Do you have references on this information?



It isn't happening now because of solar radiation. It plays a part for certain, but right now global cooling from solar radiation decrease is much less prevalent than entropic thermal crisis within the atmosphere.

Carbon pollution isn't just causing global warming either. My largest concern it it's effects on the food chain as the waters of the planet become acidified.

Go Back To Science, Technology & Nature Topic List
Prev1234Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll