d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Science, Technology & Nature > Abiogenesis > Pretty Cool If You Ask Me.
123Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 1,954
Joined: Nov 10 2004
Gold: 75.00
Dec 10 2008 11:57pm
Abiogenesis is the theory surrounding the begging of life; organic molecules from nothing. For the ease of explanation, this is the theory that precedes evolution; the start of life rather than the changing of life. Theories, although some of the things can be proven. This is awesome to me because it gives grounds to the theory of evolution because you can't evolve from nothing.

Different theories include that through a mixture of carbon, iron, and sulphur, a basic form of photosynthesis occurred and continued from there.

When this would have happened, about 3 billion years ago, the earth would have still been very hot from its creation and there would more than likely have been a large amount of evaporated water vapor in the air. Through the Miller–Urey experiment, we proved that organic molecules would generate from prehistoric earth conditions as well. Water, methane, ammonia, and hydrogen were all placed in a sealed and sterile glass enclosure. As the water was heated (creating the water vapor I referenced earlier) and mixed with the other components, and electrical charge was sent through the enclosure to simulate the lightning that would have normally happened on earth. When the test was complete, 22 amino acids were found- the building blocks of genetic information and life. As the earth cooled and the water began to condense and fall back to the earth as rain, the amino acids would have accumulated in the large bodies of water (oceans, lakes, etc). As time passed, they would link together and through more chemical processes, they would form mRNA/RNA (Ribonucleic acid) which, in turn, would subsequently form into DNA (Deoxyribonucleic acid) which holds the genetic information for life and all living organisms.

This is about where evolution would kick in as DNA would join together, become specialized, and eventually create life forms.

I'd like to see a discussion on this.

Oh my, I am really enjoying this forum. Sorry if I post too much xD

This post was edited by ChaosDealer73 on Dec 11 2008 12:07am
Member
Posts: 45,514
Joined: May 28 2007
Gold: 3,209.94
Dec 11 2008 12:03am
DNA is not needed for the transfer of genetic information, there are species of viruses (and perhaps bacteria) that exclusively use RNA for their reproduction.

It is interesting though that there were perhaps self replicating organic molecules with none of "life's" characteristics and that selection processes were still being applied to this protolife.
Member
Posts: 1,954
Joined: Nov 10 2004
Gold: 75.00
Dec 11 2008 12:06am
Quote (Myrddrall9 @ Thu, Dec 11 2008, 01:03am)
DNA is not needed for the transfer of genetic information, there are species of viruses (and perhaps bacteria) that exclusively use RNA for their reproduction.

It is interesting though that there were perhaps self replicating organic molecules with none of "life's" characteristics and that selection processes were still being applied to this protolife.


Yes, but a virus is not considered a living organism. While they do have RNA and even more rarely DNA, they cannot reproduce without other living organisms. mRNA/RNA is used to transcribe the information in DNA for replication and cell division. (If I remember my biology classes a few years ago tongue.gif)

This post was edited by ChaosDealer73 on Dec 11 2008 12:07am
Member
Posts: 45,514
Joined: May 28 2007
Gold: 3,209.94
Dec 11 2008 12:11am
Quote (ChaosDealer73 @ Thu, Dec 11 2008, 01:06am)
Yes, but a virus is not considered a living organism. While they do have RNA and even more rarely DNA, they cannot reproduce without other living organisms. mRNA/RNA is used to transcribe the information in DNA for replication and cell division. (If I remember my biology classes a few years ago tongue.gif)


Ah, you're right, after I have it some more thought, I should really think before I type tongue.gif

I'll post some more thoughts, when I can find my cellular biology text, it had some interesting points in it.
Banned
Posts: 1,072
Joined: Sep 25 2008
Gold: 0.01
Warn: 30%
Dec 11 2008 12:13am
viruses don't reproduce by themselves

they can carry RNA or DNA as their genetic material

(just confirming)

i'm taking a biology course right now..

This post was edited by Abstraction on Dec 11 2008 12:14am
Retired Moderator
Posts: 27,588
Joined: Jul 5 2005
Gold: 505.00
Trader: Trusted
Dec 11 2008 12:18am
I've too have heard that water, methane, ammonia, and hydrogen were used in experiments. I think that falls somewhere under the "primordial soup" kind of theory, where life began under the basic conditions required for the creation of organic molecules. Somehow, photosynthesis came about very early, and obviously genetic transfer started reasonably early, and was a requirement anyway once things really going going. Have you heard much about the idea that life started from sea vents? I know that in conditions of relative isolation and darkness, life often fluorishes at sea vents. I've read a bit about that idea as a possible explanation for how life began on Earth, but a "soup" theory makes more sense to me smile.gif Of course, perhaps vents were a catalyst is soup-making.
Member
Posts: 11,962
Joined: Apr 8 2007
Gold: 2.32
Dec 11 2008 12:21am
Not much but here it is

Several of these vents have been found and explored in both the Pacific and the Atlantic, while others likely remain hidden a mile or more below the sea surface and await discovery. Scientists who study the life-forms near the vents believe that the bacteria there, as insignificant as they may seem to most people, may provide clues to how life first formed on this planet so many millions of years ago.
Member
Posts: 45,514
Joined: May 28 2007
Gold: 3,209.94
Dec 11 2008 12:25am
Having thought about this more (and as stuff from last semester comes back and odds and ends I have picked up), viruses were thought to have evolved after life, as perhaps a mutation of the copying mechanism employed by cells.

But that wouldn't prevent past RNA/DNA clumps from self reporducing in a similar manner to today's cells , just without the living characteristics we associate with life. These self replicating things would be hard to find today because they aren't really fit for an existance among living cells, cells are more efficient. These clumps of genetic material could have been a stepping stone to life though

I'm sorry if I'm rambling or not making sense, chances are I'll look at this tomorrow and laugh at myself (it's 1:30 here tongue.gif)

EDIT:The things I'm talking about above aren't viruses, just random clumps of self replicating organic molecules.

This post was edited by Myrddrall9 on Dec 11 2008 12:47am
Banned
Posts: 1,072
Joined: Sep 25 2008
Gold: 0.01
Warn: 30%
Dec 11 2008 12:43am
Annotate

Viruses can reproduce only within a host cell: an overview

Viruses are obligate intracellular parasites; that is, they can reproduce only within a host cell. An isolated virus is unable to reproduce--or do anything else, for that matter, except infect an appropriate host cell. Viruses lack the enzymes for metabolism and have no ribosomes or other equipment for making their own proteins. Thus, isolated viruses are merely packaged sets of genes in transit from one host cell to another.

Each type of virus can infect and parasitize only a limited range of host cells, called its host range. This host specificity depends on the evolution of recognition systems by the virus. Viruses identify their host cells by a "lock-and-key" fit between proteins on the outside of the virus and specific receptor molecules on the surface of the cell. (Presumably, the receptors first evolved because they carried out functions of benefit to the organism.) Some viruses have host ranges broad enough to include several species. Swine flu virus, for example, can infect both hogs and humans, and the rabies virus can infect a number of mammalian species, including raccoons, skunks, dogs, and humans. In other cases, viruses have host ranges so narrow that they infect only a single species. For instance, there are several phages that can parasitize only E. coli.

Viruses of eukaryotes are usually tissue specific. Human cold viruses infect only the cells lining the upper respiratory tract, ignoring other tissues. And the AIDS virus binds to a specific receptor on certain types of white blood cells.

A viral infection begins when the genome of a virus makes its way into a host cell (FIGURE 18.3). The mechanism by which this nucleic acid enters the cell varies, depending on the type of virus. For example, the T-even phages use their elaborate tail apparatus to inject DNA into a bacterium (see the chapter-opening drawing on p. 328). Once inside, the viral genome can commandeer its host, reprogramming the cell to copy the viral nucleic acid and manufacture viral proteins. Most DNA viruses use the DNA polymerases of the host cell to synthesize new genomes along the templates provided by the viral DNA. In contrast, to replicate their genomes, RNA viruses must use special virus-encoded polymerases, ones that can use RNA as a template. (Cells generally have no native enzymes for carrying out such a process.) We will describe the replication of DNA and RNA viruses in more detail later in the chapter.


Fig 18-3. A simplified viral reproductive cycle. A virus is an obligate intracellular parasite that uses the equipment of its host cell to reproduce. In this simplest of viral cycles, the parasite is a DNA virus with a capsid consisting of a single type of protein. After entering the cell, the viral DNA uses host nucleotides and enzymes to replicate itself. The viral DNA uses other host resources to produce its capsid proteins by transcription and translation. The new viral DNA and capsid proteins assemble into new virus particles, which leave the cell.


Regardless of the type of viral genome, the parasite diverts its host’s resources for viral production. The host provides the nucleotides for nucleic acid synthesis. It also provides enzymes, ribosomes, tRNAs, amino acids, ATP, and other components needed for making the viral proteins dictated by viral genes.

After the viral nucleic acid molecules and capsomeres are produced, their assembly into new viruses is often a spontaneous process, a process of self-assembly. In fact, the RNA and capsomeres of TMV can be separated in the laboratory and then reassembled to form complete viruses simply by mixing the components together again. The simplest type of viral reproductive cycle is completed when hundreds or thousands of viruses emerge from the infected host cell. The cell is often destroyed in the process. In fact, some of the symptoms of human viral infections, such as colds and influenza, result from cellular damage and death and from the body’s responses to this destruction. The viral progeny that exit a cell have the potential to infect additional cells, spreading the viral infection.

There are many variations on the simplified viral reproductive cycle we have traced in this overview. We will see several examples as we take a closer look at some bacterial viruses (phages), animal viruses, and plant viruses.





----------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Phages reproduce using lytic or lysogenic cycles

The phages are the best understood of all viruses, although some of them are also among the most complex. Research on phages led to the discovery that some double-stranded DNA viruses can reproduce by two alternative mechanisms: the lytic cycle and the lysogenic cycle.

The Lytic Cycle

A phage reproductive cycle that culminates in death of the host cell is known as a lytic cycle. The term refers to the last stage of infection, during which the bacterium lyses (breaks open) and releases the phages that were produced within the cell. Each of these phages can then infect a healthy cell, and a few successive lytic cycles can destroy an entire bacterial colony in just hours. A phage that reproduces only by a lytic cycle is a virulent phage. FIGURE 18.4 (p. 332) uses the virulent phage T4 to illustrate the steps of a lytic cycle. The figure and legend describe the process, which you should study before proceeding.


Fig 18-4. The lytic cycle of phage T4. Phage T4 has about 100 genes, which are transcribed and translated using the host cell’s machinery. One of the first phage genes translated after infection codes for an enzyme that chops up the host cell’s DNA (step 3); the phage DNA is protected from breakdown because it contains a modified form of cytosine that is not recognized by the enzyme. The entire lytic cycle, from the phage’s first contact with the cell surface to cell lysis, takes only 20-30 minutes at 37°C.


After reading about the lytic cycle, you may wonder why phages haven’t exterminated all bacteria. Actually, bacteria are not defenseless. Natural selection favors bacterial mutants with receptor sites that are no longer recognized by a particular type of phage. And when phage DNA successfully enters a bacterium, various cellular enzymes may break it down. Enzymes called restriction nucleases, for example, recognize and cut up DNA that is foreign to the cell, including certain phage DNA. The bacterial cell’s own DNA is chemically modified in a way that prevents attack by restriction enzymes. But just as natural selection favors bacteria with effective restriction enzymes, natural selection favors phage mutants that are resistant to these enzymes. Thus, the parasite-host relationship is in constant evolutionary flux.

There is still another important reason bacteria have been spared from extinction as a result of phage activity. Many phages can check their own destructive tendencies and, instead of lysing their host cells, coexist with them in what is called the lysogenic cycle.

The Lysogenic Cycle

In contrast to the lytic cycle, which kills the host cell, the lysogenic cycle replicates the phage genome without destroying the host. Phages that are capable of using both modes of reproducing within a bacterium are called temperate phages. To compare the lytic and lysogenic cycles, we will examine a temperate phage called lambda, written with the Greek letter l. Phage l resembles T4, but its tail has only one short tail fiber.

Infection of an E. coli cell by phage l begins when the phage binds to the surface of the cell and injects its DNA (FIGURE 18.5). Within the host, the l DNA molecule forms a circle. What happens next depends on the reproductive mode: lytic cycle or lysogenic cycle. During a lytic cycle, the viral genes immediately turn the host cell into a l-producing factory, and the cell soon lyses and releases its viral products. The viral genome behaves differently during a lysogenic cycle. The l DNA molecule is incorporated by genetic recombination (crossing over) into a specific site on the host cell’s chromosome. It is then known as a prophage. One prophage gene codes for a protein that represses most of the other prophage genes. (This is the repressor protein Nancy Hopkins studied as a graduate student; see p. 232.) Thus, the phage genome is mostly silent within the bacterium. How, then, does the phage reproduce? Every time the E. coli cell prepares to divide, it replicates the phage DNA along with its own and passes the copies on to daughter cells. A single infected cell can quickly give rise to a large population of bacteria carrying the virus in prophage form. This mechanism enables viruses to propagate without killing the host cells on which they depend.


Fig 18-5. The lysogenic and lytic reproductive cycles of phage l, a temper-ate phage. After entering the bacterial cell and circularizing, the l DNA can either integrate into the bacterial chromosome (lysogenic cycle) or immediately initiate the production of a large number of progeny phages (lytic cycle). In most cases, the lytic pathway is followed, but once a lysogenic cycle begins, the prophage may be carried in the host cell’s chromosome for many generations. Phage l has a single, short tail fiber, not shown in this diagram.


The term lysogenic implies that prophages are capable of giving rise to active phages that lyse their host cells. This occurs when, occasionally, the l genome exits the bacterial chromosome. Once free in the cell, the l genome initiates a lytic cycle. It is usually an environmental trigger, such as radiation or the presence of certain chemicals, that switches the virus from the lysogenic to the lytic mode.

In addition to the gene for the repressor protein, a few other prophage genes may also be expressed during lysogenic cycles, and the expression of these genes may alter the phenotype of the host bacteria. This phenomenon can have important medical significance. For example, the bacteria that cause the human diseases diphtheria, botulism, and scarlet fever would be harmless to humans if it were not for certain prophage genes that induce the host bacteria to make toxins.

This post was edited by Abstraction on Dec 11 2008 12:45am
Member
Posts: 1,954
Joined: Nov 10 2004
Gold: 75.00
Dec 11 2008 12:44am
Quote (RewtheBrave @ Thu, Dec 11 2008, 01:18am)
I've too have heard that water, methane, ammonia, and hydrogen were used in experiments. I think that falls somewhere under the "primordial soup" kind of theory, where life began under the basic conditions required for the creation of organic molecules. Somehow, photosynthesis came about very early, and obviously genetic transfer started reasonably early, and was a requirement anyway once things really going going. Have you heard much about the idea that life started from sea vents? I know that in conditions of relative isolation and darkness, life often fluorishes at sea vents. I've read a bit about that idea as a possible explanation for how life began on Earth, but a "soup" theory makes more sense to me smile.gif Of course, perhaps vents were a catalyst is soup-making.


Quote (nacirem @ Thu, Dec 11 2008, 01:21am)
Not much but here it is

Several of these vents have been found and explored in both the Pacific and the Atlantic, while others likely remain hidden a mile or more below the sea surface and await discovery. Scientists who study the life-forms near the vents believe that the bacteria there, as insignificant as they may seem to most people, may provide clues to how life first formed on this planet so many millions of years ago.


Nacirem about sums it up. These deep sea vents are usually sulphur-based, as that is the element being emitted from the vents. Life forms around it because there are bacteria that use a process similar to photosynthesis called chemosynthesis which uses methane, heat, and sulphur to produce a similar effect. There are also, if I'm not mistaken, other life forms that use the very faint glow from the smoke as light for photosynthesis- the first organism ever discovered that uses non-sunlight in photosynthesis in the natural world. As these are coming straight out of the ground, there are a lot of minerals and nutrients in the surrounding water which attract other life forms. These provide food for bigger ones and the tube worms that are usually seen around them consume the smaller organisms and nutrients as well.

This post was edited by ChaosDealer73 on Dec 11 2008 12:44am
Go Back To Science, Technology & Nature Topic List
123Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll