lol! This kid comes in with barb bo + gauradin and barb leaping people and calls it a "victory" when he can kill a zon, after he spent like 30 minutes stacking. gathering vives, fade buffing, in some random act after he s/e'd from his WW barb getting towned 5 times :/

Gauradin = autofail you wouldn't 1v1 for your life, if you can't get your "brother" in the game, you'll sit in town until he arrives.

you died to bioshocka / 10
you tried bming bioshocka and lost / 10
ice / 10

lol for someone who dodged me 80 times, thats quite a statement ;o

and dont get it wrong, it was me vs his "brother" his gaura din . I'm not afraid of a challenge, he is afraid of 1v1ing me with by legit means.

This post was edited by mewi on Oct 1 2011 03:49pm

I know this is out of sync with the rest of the posts in this thread, but I actually have some questions about the build. Sorry

Just a little confused over why the choice of Grifs over a nice rare 2os zon helm?

The only evident bonus you'll gain from it is the added Light damage. But since you're not hitting 9fpa Cs (95ias) and you have little to no fhr to implement it in most occasions, would you benefit far greater from a rare?

Frw / res / More plague damage / dodges / 1 more soc..... seems to trump the extra light damage imo?

Thoughts?

Sorry for wasting your time, I'll let you get back to talking about bioshoza or whoever

I challenged you to a duel, and you refused to accept. Thats called dodging- you dodging.
Are you going to dodge again?

Any time you want, E/S/L, I'll hand your bm l8z zon her bm l8z butt.
but since you're too chicken to man up to your own challenges, I am glad to see bioshocka fulfilling that niche while you cry about it.
You try to use some BM build of yours against him, and his BM build whooped yours right back. So why say "afraid of legit means", lol?




A 2 socket circlet is another, quite valid way to build it. But it should only be attempted under certain circumstances.
If you want to drop down to the 7 FPA BP, using it, you'd need to have a hybrid r/w, and I don't use hacked items ever

But if you did, and you wanted to improve your CS/fury bps, you'd need to have a rare javelin- and these are exceptionally hard to find.
Now, if you have a 40/400/eth/rep/etc java, then sure, you definitely want to go the rare diadem build. And it requires a lot of tinkering- often getting cham on your SS and having no CBF on your bow switch, which can be a liability


But if you don't have a hybrid R/W and godly rare javelin, its more beneficial to use a griffs. Griffs lets you hit the 72% bp easier for FCR- with a circlet, you need to lose your RF, and the damage boost on griffs is *huge*.
Remember, the main source of light damage you have isn't CS- its fury. And the light portion of fury is extremely important, esp against druids and necromancers, where it can wipe whole minions thanks to that -20%

Its hard to stress how huge that damage boost on griffs can be. I mean, if your opponent had exactly 75% resists, your attacks would gain effectively +84% overall damage- almost double the effect
And even when stacked, its a good boost, and lets you fill the FCR niche without needing an 08 valk, while keeping your CBF up- a very balanced way.


If you opt for a circlet, you might get more plague damage or life or resists or w/e, but you'll be sacrificing a whole ton of light potential
So when designing the build, its really more of a balancing act- its better to get nearly twice the light damage, than to get a tiny bit of extra plague from +1 skills, when plague already 1-shots everyone. Or so on.
taken from the aspect of marginal utility




But don't get me wrong. If I had a 40/400/eth/rep mat javas with +4 skills, and the lack of conscience to use a faith of ice, a rare diadem would be the way to go.
On that note, its also possible in a less extreme setup to pull off 7 FPA on your bow and hit the CS/fury breakpoints, using a 45/45/100 3 socketed circlet- however, I would never advise this, because the losses are just too huge- it leaves your build totally gimped in damage

This post was edited by Goomshill on Oct 1 2011 08:22pm

heres a setup that follows those lines, if it interests you;
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=56998410&f=103

Cheers for the detailed response dude.

Umm are my fcr tables messed up? I always thought the fcr bp for Zons were 48 and 68fcr? http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=2450747&f=87 Or is there some weird missing link tele fcr thingy like lightning on a sorc? Circ / arach / amy / ring = 70fcr (following the 68fcr bp?). or Circ / arach / ring for the 48fcr bp.

What do you mean "If you want to drop down to the 7 FPA BP, using it, you'd need to have a hybrid r/w, and I don't use hacked items ever". I am assuming we're talking about your bow here?
With rare circ and gloves= 50ias, thats 7fpa with normal mat faith (Why do you prefer 8fpa shadow over a 7fpa mat? You're not gonna do sufficiently more damage and loosing that last frame looses most of your ability to fhr lock / kb ppl with bow switch?).
Faith ice Mat is 25ias req (Which you already hit), GMB faith ice is 75ias, which couldn't be hit with my suggested setup.
Even with a 15/15 in your SS you're still not hitting the 55ias bp for Fury, which imo is extremely important.

Is the 400 extra max light damage to fury and the -20res really going to deal sufficiently more damage at 11fpa than using a rare circ hitting @10fpa? (Not to mention the extra frw/stats/res/skills from circ) ?

My build isn't too far off from yours, I have less light damage and no -20% I admit; but I hit the 95ias 9fpa for cs, the 90ias 9fpa for Fury, sufficient fhr to impliment cs in duels, and sufficiently more res and 30more frw. All I would need to do is throw a faith mat on switch and hit 7fpa. : http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=57764933&f=87 (I know you've already read it, its for others who might be reading)

Maybe it's the way I duel with a Damach (Rather defensively), but I think having 9fpa fury and 7fpa bow coupled with kb is vital in keeping people at arms length once poisoned.




Yeah Gnu's javs are fucking insane.

Indeed there are weird FCR tables, you'd want to read this;
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=52434886&f=87

I do 8 FPA shadow over 7 FPA mat on this setup because you have to sacrifice gear to hit 7 FPA. With a griffs setup, you can have 35% ias maximum- still 8 FPA with a mat bow, so you might as well use a shadow at 8 FPA
Now if you go for the rare circlet, you gain the 7 FPA, but you lose *tons* of lightning damage on CS/fury- and I've found that wasn't worth it.
But this does indeed also need to count the physical damage lost on the bow.

By all means, the kb and getting animations out faster is worth way more than a raw DPS calculation, but its still significant to lose 10% of your bow damage even if your total DPS rises
Because while if this was the only factor offsetting it, it would be a clear cut choice- the problem is that switching to a rare circlet is multiple factors lost- damage on CS/fury, losing a ring slot (rf -> fcr means CBF on java side only, and lost resistances overall), and then that 10% bow damage loss
So whats gained versus lost? For 7 FPA alone I'd never ever do that. Even with slightly faster CS/fury speed, I'd only do it if I had rare javas to back it up- and then by all means, do it

But yeah you can drop to 7 FPA without losing damage by using a hybrid r/w, and the setups are all different, but I don't bother to delve into that much


But in my experience, I've found that '400 extra max light' and -20% resists to be definitely worth it. It often makes a difference in turning CS from tgods absorbed to fatal on some people, and besides just powering up fury normally, is dead helpful vs druids and necros- given its huge interaction with minion stacks.



In the end though, its a bit of a silly argument- it boils down to whether you have both the insane rare javelins and the insane rare circlet to make it possible. And since I won't use imports or hybrids as a rule, it makes that a much taller order too. And if I had a 40/400/4 eth/rep mat java, by all means, use a circlet build with it. But if you're stuck with subpar javelins, or subpar circlet, its very likely better to use a titans / griffs setup, which is much cheaper and easily acquired. I'd certainly like to have 9 FPA fury and 7 fpa bows in duels, but if I'm going to be throwing the equivalent of toothpicks at my enemy, its better to just slow it down a frame or two and use some cheap gear that hits 10x harder. So I'd kill for a set of 40/300+/2+ ethereal repair javelins, but when you start using stuff thats weaker damage than titans, it gets a little iffy.




But the last bit I can comment on- just skip FHR entirely. If you're having issues with assassins exploiting MB spam, an amulet of life everlasting is the only thing that can win that duel at the maxims, but anything less than that, FHR really doesn't matter on a zon with D/A/E. Especially not when you have 3600 HP, and a 4000 damage whirlwind or whatever hit will only have a maybe 3% chance of putting you into FHR, after defense, dodge, blocking & fhr %. Compared to 50-60% of hits putting you into 8 frame dodges, its so infrequent for FHR to do anything, that you really shouldn't sacrifice any gear for it. If you got it on rare boots, or as a circlet mod or whatever, then its all well and great. But don't bother with charm slots or runes for sure





But yeah good to hear the stuff, its always a tricky build to fully twink out at the last bits, since theres a few options that all work. Personally I play very aggressively, mostly so nobody can ever complain of 'poison and run' tactics- I'll be teleporting on top of BvC's and I've been known to chainlock sorcs with guided arrow (fun surprise tactic). And in all reality, its probably a strategy thats even more helped by having those higher breakpoints than damage. My standard tactic against all casters and most other characters is to throw lightning furies and teleport around and switch places with them, taking the flank, while either defensively plaguing to punish stomps, or throwing plagues in the direct opposite direction of my opponent before I teleport to the flank (because when they teleport to the flank in the same way, thats one invisible cloud right where they always end up).

Are you fucking kidding me?!!! http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=52434886&f=87 Why the the hell isn't this common knowledge?

Is there a noticeable difference between 68fcr (13'10) and 72fcr (13'9). Because that's the sole reason for all this difficulty between hat choices.

You do make a valid point about the fhr. I always get caught up in fhr needs when making anything involving Cs, but those were always Pure cs builds without points in d/a/e so 86 was vital.

Ok so possible new switch to my build: Hmmm. Think I'll Go with rare circ / Rare belt and aim for the 48fcr bp then. I'm far too trigger happy to loose my precious 9 / 7fpa attacks What boot option if I wont be needing the fhr from Dancers...... I've always had a soft spot for Aldurs... Thoughts?

tri res with dex fhr 30 frw

but before i got those i used aldurs and natalyas