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Aug 18 2009 06:45am
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Aug 18 2009 08:21am
Quote (Azn Masta @ Tue, Aug 18 2009, 12:08pm)
competant doesnt mean u'll never make a mistake... 200-300 life is nothin compared to being safer 75% of the time.... you like math dont you? lets try some

lets say the necro has 3.2k life max block vs 4k non block

3200x.75=2400+3200=5600life vs chars where block helps against.... (barbs/sins/team pk/zons/bming/etc...)

the only time a necro would be better without block is in nvn (and with nvn gear on a max block necro will die in the same amount as spears are a vita one) and vs druids and sorcs....and like a trapper or something

a good es sorc will beat the necro regardless so thats out of the question leaving only the druid.....and even in that matchup, 1-2 mistakes will cost you your life so 3.2 vs 4k wont make THAT much of a diff

vs a sin, a good necro should be able to beat it anyways (unless the sin just camps in a corner 24/7 - and in that case, max block or not... u'll lose anyways)

in the end, i rule max block far superior to vita necro


A little basic math:
3200 x 0.75 = 2400
3200 x 1.75 = 5600
3200 x 4 = 12800

Hope I was helpful in assisting you with your awesome calculations
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Aug 18 2009 08:31am
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Aug 18 2009 12:01pm
Quote (Azn Masta @ Tue, Aug 18 2009, 12:08pm)
competant doesnt mean u'll never make a mistake... 200-300 life is nothin compared to being safer 75% of the time.... you like math dont you? lets try some

lets say the necro has 3.2k life max block vs 4k non block

3200x.75=2400+3200=5600life vs chars where block helps against.... (barbs/sins/team pk/zons/bming/etc...)

the only time a necro would be better without block is in nvn (and with nvn gear on a max block necro will die in the same amount as spears are a vita one) and vs druids and sorcs....and like a trapper or something

a good es sorc will beat the necro regardless so thats out of the question leaving only the druid.....and even in that matchup, 1-2 mistakes will cost you your life so 3.2 vs 4k wont make THAT much of a diff

vs a sin, a good necro should be able to beat it anyways (unless the sin just camps in a corner 24/7 - and in that case, max block or not... u'll lose anyways)

in the end, i rule max block far superior to vita necro


while I agree with that a few extra hundred hp is nothing compared to the safety of 75% block, I really hate the way you did the analysis with "effective hp" or whatever bullshit calculation you have there. Cause the 75% block is somewhat random, sometimes a player will just be on a lucky block streak and it will seem like their life refuses to move down at all, other times the nec might be caught walking with block down and get dropped fast than a vita nec in 2-3 rapid hits from 1 mistake.

I still agree with that block is much much better, but calculating effective hp to try to show the difference between block and vita builds is a very very poor method to show it imo.
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Aug 18 2009 12:06pm
Quote (Ziecheik @ Tue, 18 Aug 2009, 21:01)
while I agree with that a few extra hundred hp is nothing compared to the safety of 75% block, I really hate the way you did the analysis with "effective hp" or whatever bullshit calculation you have there. Cause the 75% block is somewhat random, sometimes a player will just be on a lucky block streak and it will seem like their life refuses to move down at all, other times the nec might be caught walking with block down and get dropped fast than a vita nec in 2-3 rapid hits from 1 mistake.

I still agree with that block is much much better, but calculating effective hp to try to show the difference between block and vita builds is a very very poor method to show it imo.


and calculating it wrong as fuck is even worse

:rolleyes:
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Aug 18 2009 01:51pm
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Aug 19 2009 03:06am
Quote (jollyranchers @ Tue, Aug 18 2009, 12:21pm)
i used this guide for my hybrid i tweaked it a bit but i used this as a guide line thx bro
/edit unlike this one~
http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showtopic=34249273&f=87&st=0
//edit again~or this gfg one here
http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showtopic=29254526&f=87&st=0


this
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Aug 20 2009 08:05am
Quote (Ziecheik @ Tue, Aug 18 2009, 02:01pm)
while I agree with that a few extra hundred hp is nothing compared to the safety of 75% block, I really hate the way you did the analysis with "effective hp" or whatever bullshit calculation you have there. Cause the 75% block is somewhat random, sometimes a player will just be on a lucky block streak and it will seem like their life refuses to move down at all, other times the nec might be caught walking with block down and get dropped fast than a vita nec in 2-3 rapid hits from 1 mistake.

I still agree with that block is much much better, but calculating effective hp to try to show the difference between block and vita builds is a very very poor method to show it imo.


how would u have done it differently then? imo 75% block is almost the same as having 75% more life (almost give or take a few due to luck)
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Aug 20 2009 08:11am
Quote (Azn Masta @ Thu, 20 Aug 2009, 17:05)
how would u have done it differently then? imo 75% block is almost the same as having 75% more life (almost give or take a few due to luck)


LOL

you do realise you get only hit once in every 4th hit(in theory)? it means that you have ~4x more effective life, not 75% more ^^

This post was edited by tudey on Aug 20 2009 08:11am
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Aug 20 2009 08:38am
Quote (Azn Masta @ Thu, Aug 20 2009, 02:05pm)
how would u have done it differently then? imo 75% block is almost the same as having 75% more life (almost give or take a few due to luck)


by not making the effective hp vs true hp arguement at all.
75% block is not 75% more life. If your opponent has 25% chance to hit you as opposed to 100% chance to hit it should take 4x the amount of hits by statistics. Then you have to realize there is def/ar rolls and any character will have a little bit of block not 0% if they have a shield on. Despite all that even if you get all the correct percentages calculated out, "effective hp" is just a horrible argument in the end - because a 3k hp necro is always a 3k hp necro, a 3k hp necro with 75% block is still a 3k necro, not a 12k hp necro, and a few unblocked hits in a row can end the duel on the spot for the necro or the nec may drop his block% by running. It's not like we are rolling 1 damage attacks at a time so that using effective hp 0 block vs 75% block would actually make sense, a few unsuccessful block rolls will just end the duel. Trying to calculate effective hp in a game where characters take thousands of life per hit is just a recipe for bad theorycrafting.
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