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Nov 13 2018 01:24am
Quote (poli9 @ Nov 13 2018 09:52am)
No. Again, you are completely wrong on CB.

The first crushing blow will ALWAYS deal 4k damage to a 16k hp normal monster. He has a 100% chance to have this occur with each swing. You have a 50% chance to have this occur with each swing. The damage will be reduced accordingly as the monster’s health decreases.

This is nowhere near the same as “he does 4k and i do 2k”

Your damage is not guaranteed; his IS.

Get it?


Nope.
Less chance to CB = Less damage over time.
I think you have problems with MATH.

Consider only damage from first CB hit.
Imagine i fight vs group of Venom Lords. Venom Lord in CS p1 has 16K HP.
If i have 50% cb i miss 50% of time. So half of time i can't land CB...
So 50% of time i deal 4k damage, other 50% - zero CB damage. (We consider only first hit)
In other words, 50% of Venom lords got hitted by first CB strike and taken 4k damage, other 50% - don't take any CB damage on First hit
Average = 2K damage.

So difference in 100% and 50% CB is 2k damage per first hit over time...

This post was edited by GoreRider on Nov 13 2018 01:50am
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Nov 13 2018 07:26pm
Quote (GoreRider @ Nov 13 2018 12:24am)
Nope.
Less chance to CB = Less damage over time.
I think you have problems with MATH.

Consider only damage from first CB hit.
Imagine i fight vs group of Venom Lords. Venom Lord in CS p1 has 16K HP.
If i have 50% cb i miss 50% of time. So half of time i can't land CB...
So 50% of time i deal 4k damage, other 50% - zero CB damage. (We consider only first hit)
In other words, 50% of Venom lords got hitted by first CB strike and taken 4k damage, other 50% - don't take any CB damage on First hit
Average = 2K damage.

So difference in 100% and 50% CB is 2k damage per first hit over time...



You clearly don’t understand the mathematics of probabilities over time.

Nice algebra. Shame it does not apply here at all.

You can keep quoting me, or you can start to learn something.

Reducing chance of CB below 100% = exponentially less damage over time

Take coin flipping as an example.

On the first flip, yes, you have a 50/50 chance of either heads or tails. Now, understand heads to be a successful crushing blow, and tails to be a failure.

When you flip the second time, your chance is no longer 50/50. Probability multiplies: meaning you have a 0.5^2 chance now. This chance of continually rolling heads (crushing blow) keeps diminishing with each successive flip because multiplying fractions means your product becomes smaller each time.
In other words, PROBABILITY dictates that you will NEVER have 50% chance of crushing blow again AFTER the first attempt in your series of events.
Put simply: you only have 50% chance to do the same CB damage as him on the very first hit. You have a 25% chance to do the same CB damage as him on the second hit. Your relative chance (and thus, average CB damage over time) drops exponentially with every swing that follows until you have killed the monster.

His coin is heads on both side. His probability is 1^n where n = number of hits. 1 x 1 is always 1.
His chance is always guaranteed
He will slap that thing silly until it dies.

I’m not going to waste more time on you here. 👋🏻

@OP Thanks for the sweet guide. Hope you get sticky.
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Nov 14 2018 01:00am
Quote (poli9 @ Nov 14 2018 04:26am)
Reducing chance of CB below 100% = exponentially less damage over time


Even if CB exactly 100% you will do exponentially less damage over time. Every hit you make, mob has less hp. Less hp = less CB damage.
That's why first/second hit is most valuable.


Quote (poli9 @ Nov 14 2018 04:26am)
Take coin flipping as an example.

On the first flip, yes, you have a 50/50 chance of either heads or tails. Now, understand heads to be a successful crushing blow, and tails to be a failure.

When you flip the second time, your chance is no longer 50/50. Probability multiplies: meaning you have a 0.5^2 chance now. This chance of continually rolling heads (crushing blow) keeps diminishing with each successive flip because multiplying fractions means your product becomes smaller each time.


Sorry, you are completely wrong. Every time i flip coin there is 50% chance of heads and 50% chance of tails.
Even if i flip it second/third/fourth... and so on.
You can check it by yourself. If you flip coin for 100 times you will get ~50 of heads and ~50 of tails (+/- 2-3).
More time you flip coin = more accurate wil be end results.

Probability multiplies when you want get for example heads two/three/four and more times in a row.
Sure it can be even 6 times Heads in a row with chance of ~1,56%.
But we don't calculate chance of landing 6 hits of CB in a row. With 50% of CB you will miss. But no more than 50% of time.

Quote (poli9 @ Nov 14 2018 04:26am)
In other words, PROBABILITY dictates that you will NEVER have 50% chance of crushing blow again AFTER the first attempt in your series of events.

Wrong again. If you flip coin, you will ALWAYS have 50% chance of Heads and 50% chance of Tails in every round.
If the task is to get only heads, then probability is lowers with every time you get Head. Doesn't matter, because in the end of flipping half of your flips will be heads and other half will be Tails.

Quote
Put simply: you only have 50% chance to do the same CB damage as him on the very first hit. You have a 25% chance to do the same CB damage as him on the second hit. Your relative chance (and thus, average CB damage over time) drops exponentially with every swing that follows until you have killed the monster.

The same as with flipping coin. You have 50% chances of CB and 50% chances of miss every single hit. We don't speak about probability of getting every succesful CB hit with chance of CB 50%.

Quote
His chance is always guaranteed
He will slap that thing silly until it dies.

And with 50% CB you misses 50% of time.
And you do no less than ~50% damage of HIS DAMAGE with 100% CB.

Quote
I’m not going to waste more time on you here.

Why? ) I thought you would "teach" me about coins)))

This post was edited by GoreRider on Nov 14 2018 01:20am
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Nov 14 2018 07:41am
Appears this thread turned into an ahrimond triple damaches thread
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Nov 14 2018 08:22am
Quote (poli9 @ Nov 13 2018 08:26pm)
You clearly don’t understand the mathematics of probabilities over time.

Nice algebra. Shame it does not apply here at all.

You can keep quoting me, or you can start to learn something.

Reducing chance of CB below 100% = exponentially less damage over time

Take coin flipping as an example.

On the first flip, yes, you have a 50/50 chance of either heads or tails. Now, understand heads to be a successful crushing blow, and tails to be a failure.

When you flip the second time, your chance is no longer 50/50. Probability multiplies: meaning you have a 0.5^2 chance now. This chance of continually rolling heads (crushing blow) keeps diminishing with each successive flip because multiplying fractions means your product becomes smaller each time.
In other words, PROBABILITY dictates that you will NEVER have 50% chance of crushing blow again AFTER the first attempt in your series of events.
Put simply: you only have 50% chance to do the same CB damage as him on the very first hit. You have a 25% chance to do the same CB damage as him on the second hit. Your relative chance (and thus, average CB damage over time) drops exponentially with every swing that follows until you have killed the monster.

His coin is heads on both side. His probability is 1^n where n = number of hits. 1 x 1 is always 1.
His chance is always guaranteed
He will slap that thing silly until it dies.

I’m not going to waste more time on you here. 👋🏻

@OP Thanks for the sweet guide. Hope you get sticky.


Wait that means all i have to do is go to a casino and wait for roulette to get a few red or black in a row and bid a big amount on the opposite,repeat strategy over and over and become rich :o
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Nov 14 2018 08:23am
Quote (Hyperdimension @ Nov 14 2018 08:22am)
Wait that means all i have to do is go to a casino and wait for roulette to get a few red or black in a row and bid a big amount on the opposite,repeat strategy over and over and become rich :o


yes bro gl!
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Nov 14 2018 08:28am
Quote (Haseo @ Nov 14 2018 09:23am)
yes bro gl!


Wtf i"ll be a god of melee duels
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Nov 14 2018 09:05am
Quote (GoreRider @ Nov 12 2018 05:25am)
Hm.... Venom Lord in CS got about 16K like. So First CB hit = 4000 hp.
100% CB = 4000 dam
85% CB = 3400 dam
65% CB = 2600 dam
So its really not so big difference. And in PvM 50-60% CB is really enough.
War Travelers gives nice 15-25 damage or like 500 damage after DS in every hit. Also boost to stats
Arreats can helps with resists if you have low charms/anni/torch also +skills and stats give some amount of damage. Life leech also useful. And 20 Dex gives better AR = more hits.

2k on /players 1 against a normal class Venom Lord in hell (sans Decrepify / Amp)

But yes, 50% is generally enough in pvm, this kind of barb build is mainly a boss killer where lower chance to hit (combined with their block) means you need reliable CB/DS when you successfully land. (see post #8)

This post was edited by Marieusz on Nov 14 2018 09:18am
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Nov 14 2018 09:35am
Quote (Marieusz @ Nov 14 2018 06:05pm)
2k on /players 1 against a normal class Venom Lord in hell (sans Decrepify / Amp)

2k because of 50% Physical resistance?

This post was edited by GoreRider on Nov 14 2018 09:36am
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Nov 14 2018 03:41pm
Thinking of trying this build out and starting d2 again. How is useast vs west at the moment? Ladder more active ?

What about the bots?
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