Quote (Synonym @ Apr 29 2011 03:48pm)

like i told you, your calcs were wrong before.
it's obvious now that treach wins.
what was left non-calculated is also fhr animation likelihood and thus total time needed to make those attacks, since more interruptions = longer duration to strike again which affects total strikes taken per x time.
also, the fact that a strike animation starts faster due to a higher ias bp leads to not being hit by more mobs in the game first, but having your merc hit first and thus avoiding yet more fhr animations, and killing faster overall.
also haven't included damage taken with treach under fade vs dmg taken with fort under ca, you'll see that 15% dr and 60@ greatly diminish dmg taken by both phy and elemental attacks, leaving the merc more fhr-animation free and a faster, better merc.

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Quote (feanur @ 29 Apr 2011 12:48)

You were talking about my calculations on Insight setup (no source of CB).
Those calculations are correct, period.
And they show that Fortitude provides higher DPS than Treachery in any case except decrep'd 100% of the time.

My last calculations are about CB setups (Infinity-Andy or Reaper-Guillaume) vs Hell Baal in 8 players game (where Treachery should be at its greater advantage, since CB is the main source of damages for the merc).
They show that :

• With Infinity, Treachery provides higher DPS - although there is not a significal difference between the 2 when no Hammerdin provides Concentration.
  
• With Reaper's, Fortitude provides higher DPS, with or without Hammerdin around - except if Concentration 35 is supplied AND if you use 15/40ed Reapers over Shael'd Reapers, a possibility that you didnt take into account.

An important point is about recovery animation AND FROZEN EFFECTS. Both making merc's attack slower.

I have no method in mind to come to a precise comparaison.

It should be clear that :
- 20% fhr (11 frames, Treachery) helps to attack faster
- 3.5K def + Chilling armor (Fortitude) helps to avoid being hit, hence avoid recovery animation.
- 15% dr (fade, Treachery) and pdr 7 (Fortitude) helps to avoid recovery animation.
- 148 life (Fortitude) helps to avoid recovery animation - though not boosted by Battle orders.
- level 25 Venom (Treachery) adds some more damages and can stop monster's regeneration.

I believe all those mods will more or less have the same influence on merc's attack speed.

I also suggested the use of eGladds soc 15ias/15@ for some marvellous mods :
- pdr 20 / mdr 20 (superior to 15%dr in most cases)
- up to 2219 def
- CbF
- 30% fhr (10 frames recovery)

To conclude, I will add that Treachery can be done in No-Ladder, for the price of a simple Lem rune, whereas Fortitude is much more expensive and impossible to do in No-Ladder.

Quote (Trapslick @ Apr 29 2011 08:10pm)

this was done well... stating the simple fact that treach isn't > fort in all situations

besides that, you can get just slightly lower damage with a fort infinity setup with thresher and get holy freeze as ur GT treach setup (which uses might) that was stated in the guide... you used a setup that was perfect for treach and said that treach was greater in almost every situation, which is just not true

Quote (Synonym @ Apr 29 2011 08:10pm)

(...)
@feanur, your calculations are paper-dry without thought of what's going on during gameplay, (...)

Quote (Synonym @ Apr 29 2011 08:10pm)

(...), as you said so yourself there are too many variables left unattended to and calculating damage is not simply matching up attacks to hp. (...)

Quote (Synonym @ Apr 29 2011 08:10pm)

(...) same goes with your method regarding chance, which is simply not working.

Quote (Synonym @ Apr 27 2011 10:31am)

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Setups Analysis

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Setup #1: Andariel's Visage 15%IAS/30%FR jewel, Insight Ethereal Giant Thresher (Support Mercenary).

Fortitude

Survivability Factor
Life after SLevel 20 BO: +92% 4391
Life Steal: 10%. Based on DPS factor:
2169.8 life stolen
3553.8 life stolen
Under Decrepify/HF: 1023.596 life stolen
Under Decrepify/HF: 1367.994 life stolen
Resistances: 44% base + 70% PR + 30@ = 74@, 85%PR.
Under Conviction SLevel 12 (-85%): -11@, 59% PR.
FHR: 0% (15 Frames = 0.6s recovery animation)
DR%: 0%
Defense: 846 + 3552 + 577 + 115% (SLevel 15 CA) = 10969.
SLevel 85 mob CtH melee / ranged physical applied attacks: 2 * 85 / (85 + 98) * AR / (AR + Defense) [Will be calculating for most common AR ratings):
5,000 AR: 2 * 85 / (85 + 98) * 5000 / (5000 + 10969) = 29.08%
6,500 AR: 2 * 85 / (85 + 98) * 6500 / (6500 + 10969) = 34.56%
8,000 AR: 2 * 85 / (85 + 98) * 8000 / (8000 + 10969) =  39.17%
-Irrelevant to magic / elemental type attacks.

Damage Dealt by Monster
Affect by players in game as such:


Exemplary Damage:
Venom Lord
Fire: 96-153*5(Frames)= 480-765 (622.5 Avg.)
Infector of Souls
Fire: 100-160*5(Frames)= 500-800 (650 Avg.)

Common Scenario: Seal #5 opening Infector of Souls + 10 Venom Lords= 622.5*10 + 650 = 6875 *0.25 (75% FR setup): 1718.75 FD. FHR animation 0.6*cumulative strikes.
Common Scenario (Under conviction): Seal #5 opening Infector of Souls + 10 Venom Lords= 622.5*10 + 650 = 6875 *0.93 (7% FR):  6393.75 FD. Mercenary is dead.
*Added CS probability to be under Decrepify in the process- Mercenary is dead @ Scenario 1 as well.

Death Lord
Physical: 76-115
Monster Min Damage = ((76 * 85)/100) * (1 + ((8 - 1) * 0.0625)) = 92.8
Monster Min Damage = ((115*85)/100) * (1 + ((8 - 1) * 0.0625)) = 140.5 (92-140 = 116 Avg.)
Super Unique Death Lord
Physical: 139-231
Monster Min Damage = ((139 * 85)/100) * (1 + ((8 - 1) * 0.0625)) = 169.8
Monster Min Damage = ((231*85)/100) * (1 + ((8 - 1) * 0.0625)) = 282.2 (169-282 = 225.5 Avg.)

Common Scenario: World Stone Keep Level 2, Super unique mob + 8 mobs= 225.5 + 116*8 = 1153.5. FHR animation 0.6*cumulative strikes.
*Added Throne probability to be under Decrepify in the process- Mercenary is dead.

DPS Factor
Strength: 209 + 5 (+5 Att.) + 30 (Andariel's V.) = 244
Aura: Might SLevel 20+2 = 250% ED.
IAS: 35% cumulative.
FPA: 5.5 (3.84 Atk/s)
DS% / CS%: 46% (+6 Crit.)
CB%: 0%.
Special section: Hammerdin Concentration Aura SLevel 35 (PvM average- Calculations in regard will be coloured in blue from here on):+570% ED.
Damage: 2011-5730 (3870 Avg.)
Damage+CS%: 4022-11460 (7741 Avg.)
Damage: 3294-9384 (6339 Avg.)
Damage+CS%: 6588-18768 (12678 Avg.)
Total damage per 1 second: [(3870*54)+(7741*46)]/100 = 5650.66*3.84 = 21698.5344
Total damage per 1 second: [(6339*54)+(12678*46)]/100 = 9254.94*3.84 = 35538.9696

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Quote (Synonym @ Apr 27 2011 10:31am)

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Act 2 mercenary offensive nightmare (Might) stats @ level 90
Life: 1967
Strength: 195
Dexterity: 157
Defense: 771
Attack Rating: 1338
Resists in Hell: 54%
Damage: 61-68
Skill 1: SLevel 23 Jab
Skill 2: SLevel 18 Might aura

Act 2 mercenary offensive nightmare (Might) stats @ level 98
Life: 2287
Strength: 209
Dexterity: 169
Defense: 846
Attack Rating: 1482
Resists in Hell: 62%
Damage: 69-76
Skill 1: SLevel 23 Jab
Skill 2: SLevel 20 Might aura

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Quote (Synonym @ Apr 27 2011 10:31am)

(...)
Survivability Factor
Life after SLevel 20 BO: +92% 4391
Life Steal: 10%. Based on DPS factor:
2169.8 life stolen
3553.8 life stolen
Under Decrepify/HF: 1023.596 life stolen
Under Decrepify/HF: 1367.994 life stolen
Resistances: 44% base + 70% PR + 30@ = 74@, 85%PR.
Under Conviction SLevel 12 (-85%): -11@, 59% PR.
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Quote (scarface1988 @ 29 Apr 2011 12:23)

Why does my merc die to Lister and his companions with Treach and not with Fort?

GUISE.

Quote (Trapslick @ Apr 30 2011 12:00am)

probably due to his shitty resists... you don't have max resists until fade is used (which requires 20 hits), also, unless ur retarded and you use a might merc, your life leech sux with treach

Quote (Synonym @ Apr 29 2011 10:11pm)

ok, you've gone from plain wrong to wrong and raging.
i'll let your comments fade away.

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Quote (feanur @ Apr 30 2011 01:01am)

Il n'est pire sourd que celui qui ne veut pas entendre