ask ask

I am not going to give you a dupediscussion tight now, would be too easy
simply the fact that still you need all those runes and don`t exceed my damage simply means--> forget them

by the way, simply the fact that we both can use howl to dispatch the minions and only attack the boss, does not mean that with your setup your`re the faster bosskiller

neither do you deal the same damage on screen nor effectively, nor do you have the same amount of cb

tele through walls...
press "w" and use najs or some other item with charges.. no argument

and while you´re still trying to clean the throne and the waves, I am already in the next game

so where is your calculation of my life and ar that sdays that you have more..............
only doing one half does not prove antyhing..............

asking somebody who uses block on a zerker and selling that as best thing are things that exclude each other

let`s see
with your fcb you ~ have a 5 frame block
1/5th of your damage/second is lost for oine block
you receive far more hits because of 0 defense and blocking

you have less life because of maxblock

let`s see
no block with goot items~ 80 dex, mb with storm--> 200+ dex

120 dex= 480hitpoints on a barb, (1 vita=4 hp) at least 100% +from bo= 960 life minimum

warcry is what you use on a singer to do damage.. deals magical damage and stuns monsters.... not battle orders..
a stunned monster does not attack.. a stunned monster is prey to oneself atacking

This post was edited by Ancalagon on Aug 14 2008 04:47pm

I am not going to give you a dupediscussion tight now, would be too easy
simply the fact that still you need all those runes and don`t exceed my damage simply means--> forget them
??, lost you there, I do not dupe, but, I can just trade for them, either with strangers or friends

by the way, simply the fact that we both can use howl to dispatch the minions and only attack the boss, does not mean that with your ksetup your`re the faster bosskiller
Symantics: Vs Boss alone, I have already agreed (you say you know English based on what Varsity again?), but, getting to them faster is what I mean. I will get there way faster than you.

neither do you deal the same damage on screen nor effectively, nor ydo you have the same amount of cb
With your own Calculations for damage, the damage difference is minor, even you can see that.


tele through walls...
press "w" and use najs or some other item with charges.. no argument
Again you use something to prove a point, even if you had those items, your FCR would be 10fps as mine is 9fps. Now if you were to alter your build by including FCR items, you will change the outcome of your equations, and have to calculate it again.

and while you´re still trying to clean the throne and the waves, I am already in the next game
I like the assumption, I thought I was being realistic in my answer. Even you have to realise it.

so where is your calculation of my life and ar that sdays that you have more..............
By your own statements. You say you add in Strength to increase your Damage, You go for MB on most Ideas, You do not gain 5% Bonus to your Life, as for the Attack Ratings, even with your 50% bonus from weapon, and less dex, less skill level for example
only doing one half does not prove antyhing..............
??, explain this? Lost me

asking somebody who uses block on a zerker and selling that as best thing are things that exclude each other
They both have there individual benefits, block chance, no matter how small, including ed/redemption/res for Conc, and ed/redemption/res for Berserk

let`s see
with your fcb you ~ have a 5 frame block
1/5th of your damage/second is lost for oine block
you receive far more hits because of 0 defense and blocking

you have less life because of maxblock

let`s see
no block with goot items~ 80 dex, mb with storm--> 200+ dex

120 dex= 480hitpoints on a barb, (1 vita=4 hp) at least 100% +from bo= 960 life minimum
Now you add in Storm, nice, wonder if you put that on your build?

warcry is what you use on a singer to do damage.. deals magical damage and stuns monsters.... not battle orders..
a stunned monster does not attack.. a stunned monster is prey to oneself atacking
If I wanted to build my Singer barb, I would.
#1, why would I want or even need to Stun the 1 Boss when I can just Hit them and Kill them?
#2, stun does not work on Baal etc
#3, Radius is pathetic, with your build you have to walk in and cast, even if you switch with a tele charge item
....example press W, tele in, press W, cast WarCry, then Attack: ........... 5 actions
....example, my build, already howled lesser minions tele in and hit, just 2 actions


You have not thought thoroughly about what you are saying, but I am delighted to hear your debates.

By the way, if I chose my other merc setup, I am sure that if you stuck to your build and items including A2 merc, you may see that there is no real difference in damage.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Aug 14 2008 07:52pm

just look at the possibilities of runedrops,the possibilities of any rune dropping at all (1% per monsterkill on players 8)
and the avialability of runes... doubtful actually

english= check google to find out what the toefl test is ....

on what basics are you trying to be fast.. teleport sorry but there are first of all bosses that ccome in backs, 2nd monsters that don´t react to howl 3 ranged attack monsters
4 areas you have to clear f.e. throne or seals, like doing de seis will be pretty funny when howling, going for de seis, while your merc runs away from all the other monsters and gets his ass kicked--> oyu loose speed and ed, no to mention your 1 attack per second

why should I need any Fcr for just teleporting through a wall?^^ or have a teleportamu on switch ^^

I have to realise your amount of attacks per second.. or that baal will call up on his minions while there still are monsters in the throne or that you have to beat all waves with your amount of attacks per second, block and the likes?

the 5% life is only added to that of BO, we both used maxed BO anyways

my statement hmm let´s see
show me first of all how effective that additional ar is versus monsters
how many charms for maxdamage I have less than you and how I could not easily stack up ar from charges and the likes...

as for the explanation: you did not once refer to my postings on ar before... enough to get you back on track?

block on a zerker is not that many benefiots because it btakes our time for blocking between 1/3rd and 1/5th of a second which may nearly be a full attack,
also just looking at the calculation
I have more ed than you without the shield..., I don´t need the aura from the shield
I DON´t need the maxresis, or If I`d need them, I could easilly get them from other sources
I do more attacks per second without the shield

the storm reply was not to you but to that other guy... can`t you make the cut?


1st stun: go to the throne, kill colenzo while the others are howled away and wait for wave 2........... I don`t need to howl, I stun them, keep them close and don´t have to follow them around
2nd: attack lister or or other nice melee-bosses that attack you--> a stunned monster does not attack you more killspeed (just assuming that you don´t get attacked by a monster is pretty funny, isn`t it
3rd radius covers the melee-range
I don`t need teleport to attack.. for the fun a leap attack is one thing to go for or simply walk up and use wc.. nboth nice attacks and features

simply you did, again, not reply to some questions like interruption of your attacks and so on...
even with the first setup I have more off wepaon ed and damage than you, although on the paper you attack more often

but hey.. 55% chance to cast a 0,6 seconds delay spell + 1/3rd of a second blocktime...

still laughing

just look at the possibilities of runedrops,the possibilities of any rune dropping at all (1% per monsterkill on players 8)
and the avialability of runes... doubtful actually
Okay, you must be two faced. You state in another thread (maybe this one, i am just being lazy) quoting Dii.net or w/e about rushing char for forges (pointing out the gem point).
Now, this is how 2 people can get good runes alot faster than your so called 1% explanation.
1 player with loader, 4x CDkeys rush 1 other friend with Loader & 4x CDkeys (8 player game, 1 rusher, 7x rushees) all the way to Hell (Classic), convert to xpac, do 7x nightmare/hell forges (14 runes, mass gems)
delete, and recycle. Pure and simple

english= check google to find out what the toefl test is ....
I do not need to check, from what you have been saying, it mustn't be that great

on what basics are you trying to be fast.. teleport sorry but there are first of all bosses that ccome in backs, 2nd monsters that don´t react to howl 3 ranged attack monsters
4 areas you have to clear f.e. throne or seals, like doing de seis will be pretty funny when howling, going for de seis, while your merc runs away from all the other monsters and gets his ass kicked--> oyu loose speed and ed, no to mention your 1 attack per second
Another point trying to win, I will answer your so called hyperthetical babble.
1. Strategy to teleport over or beyond obstructions (pack) to get boss, even Lord De Sies (note, boss/lord de sies are not affected by howl, they become easy targets to kill first).
...M1 tele just out of range of minions (without howling), this draws in minions, tele behind them onto boss/lord de sies, howl (this scatters the minions away from boss and you, note, merc is safe) Zerk, boss/lord de sies dead. Ignore minions
...M2 howl minon, target boss/lord de sies tele, howl, zerk boss/lord de sies dead. Ignore minions

2. The bosses/lord de sies do not react to howl, they are easy targets, refer to 1.

3. Ranged attacks are the weakest monsters for a zerker (beside devilkin), tele in, howl, minions run away (no missile attacks from them), only boss left, you can choose to kill, or ignore, up to the player.

4. Throne. again, this is easy, there are 2 methods for clearing before baal waves.
...1. If there a few monsters in throne room, just tele on and zerk, kill.
...2. Herding Technique for full throne. Tele to Baal, howl (this makes them head toward archway) tele onto bosses and kill, while herding minions toward the archway, kill any strays, tele back to throne, and hey presto, the waves begin.
...1st wave, just berserk, kill boss. Your archer will pick off the nearest devilkin, tele onto furtherest one kill, repeat.
...2nd wave, concentrate skill, as they are magic immune, archer will pick out the skellies, then use the teleport to lock and zerk
...3rd wave, zerk, do not howl, it only takes 1 hit to kill the minions and pack boss
...4th wave, zerk, do not howl, it only takes 1 hit to kill them, if you are losing life, use right mouse button (this should be on Conc) this will leech while killing
...5th wave, conc/zerk mix, but you want to target the pack boss (actually forgot his name): If they have mana burn, use conc.
Note: on last wave, divide and conquer technique, or the draw out technique.

5. Chaos, the simplest of them all. Note, the last seal to open, will be the one that triggers Pit Lords, so first seal is the Spirits seal.
...Basics, tele to the centre of throne room. (note, if you want more length/radius for Howl, better FCR, Res, Tele Skill so that you do not use to much mana, use the 2x Hoto's on switch)
...Technique Run in (not INTO), Tele over minions, howl, [optional to kill caster if any] (this herds minions behind you, keeps merc close by & out of harms way)
...1st Seal (Spirits/Ghosts) Use "Technique" to get there, tele into top corner, howl, open seal, tele in howl, kill pack boss, tele to opposite seal, open, use "Technique" to next seal.
...2nd Seal (Lord De Sies) Map Dependent:
.............North Tele over lava to Seal, Howl minions (if any), pop seal, tele over lava, run in (not INTO) Howl (this will make minions head to centre), target Lord De Sies, tele, zerk.
.............West Tele over lava (Sth of Lord now), run in, draw in minions, "Technique", target Lord De Sies, tele zerk. "Technique" to next seal.
...3rd Seal (remember to trigger pit lords seal last) Tele to Far West Wall (corner), howl minions towards the centre, target boss, tele, zerk. Now it is time for Diablo.


why should I need any Fcr for just teleporting through a wall?^^ or have a teleportamu on switch ^^
Just read the above section to just give you a general idea how useful Teleport is, and how much faster it is to clear areas compared to you even considering using a teleport item on switch.
If you are using a Teleport Amulet, then calculate your damage again.

I have to realise your amount of attacks per second.. or that baal will call up on his minions while there still are monsters in the throne or that you have to beat all waves with your amount of attacks per second, block and the likes?
I have answered this above, explaining why my build is faster, know matter whether you put in those calculations, or even if you add in the delay from ctc Firestorm. Also if you you decided on using a tele item on switch, you are spending time to switch between tele item and Death weapon. OHH, and even if you are using a Tele ammy (all of them 25 charges), you would run out of charges, have to go back to town and repair, again wasting time.

the 5% life is only added to that of BO, we both used maxed BO anyways
OMFG, are you a noob?, check ENIGMA: 5% BONUS TO MAXIMUM LIFE

my statement hmm let´s see
show me first of all how effective that additional ar is versus monsters The same way you check your character to reach max block, but place your cursor over "Attack Rating"
how many charms for maxdamage I have less than you and how I could not easily stack up ar from charges and the likes...
You calculated my damage and compared it with your damage, so, there are no max damge charms in either calculations. SO, there is no point in stating the obvious.

as for the explanation: you did not once refer to my postings on ar before... enough to get you back on track? The same way you check your character to reach max block, but place your cursor over "Attack Rating"

block on a zerker is not that many benefiots because it btakes our time for blocking between 1/3rd and 1/5th of a second which may nearly be a full attack,
13,681 Defense on my Barb, besides Baal/Diablo/Lister, what monsters are there that will actually trigger the "Blocking" sequence???
also just looking at the calculation
I have more ed than you without the shield..., I don´t need the aura from the shield No, you just pot, then pick up pots on ground, wasting more time
I DON´t need the maxresis, or If I`d need them, I could easilly get them from other sources Conviction Aura Souls to name one.
I do more attacks per second without the shield BUT, do you do more attacks per second compared to my barb?

the storm reply was not to you but to that other guy... can`t you make the cut?
You should of separated to whom you were discussing, like i do, it is basic common sense.

1st stun: go to the throne, kill colenzo while the others are howled away and wait for wave 2........... I don`t need to howl, I stun them, keep them close and don´t have to follow them around
2nd: attack lister or or other nice melee-bosses that attack you--> a stunned monster does not attack you more killspeed (just assuming that you don´t get attacked by a monster is pretty funny, isn`t it
3rd radius covers the melee-range
I don`t need teleport to attack.. for the fun a leap attack is one thing to go for or simply walk up and use wc.. nboth nice attacks and features
What level is this so called Stun?, Base 1 point, no real skill items, making the Stun length 1.8 secs at best. I think this is what they call an "EPIC FAIL", you will be spending so much time just casting War Cry that you will not have time to attack. OHH and if you want to make this skill 20, what skills would you like to sacrifice on your build?, or would you like to change your idea and put on some skill items to boost its Stun length???
STOP TRYING to come up with HYPOTHETICAL ideas to try and win the argument, how about making your character with your ideas, and see how pathetic it truly is.

simply you did, again, not reply to some questions like interruption of your attacks and so on...
I did, but you did not read, typical
even with the first setup I have more off wepaon ed and damage than you, although on the paper you attack more often

but hey.. 55% chance to cast a 0,6 seconds delay spell + 1/3rd of a second blocktime...
You have 25% chance to cast a 0.6 seconds delay spell
i've got a 40% chance to cast a 0.6 seconds delay spell
So what, are you saying that this will make your build kill faster?

still laughing
I am glad you are laughing at your EPIC FAILS once again.

rq nm= sol- um
rq hell= hel-gul
we found out that you need
Lem, Mal,2 Vex. 3 LO, 1 Ber and 3 Jah runes

with a good rusher, you need about 35-40 minutes per rush until hell a3, let`s say another 3-4 minutes for muling,meppel,travi and 3 minutesw for 2 rqs per mule

44 minutes for all+ 3 minutes per mule

for all your runes as mentioned only in this build, you would need 201 rushes (dak`s d2 calc as source)
-->147,4 hours rushtime
-->70,35 hours for the mules and harvesting
-->217 hours and 45 minutes playtime
which equals ~ 9 days of non stop playing.. and you want to tell me that you have done that... ^^

I know how rq rushes work and I also know how long it takes to get something with a good amount of chars

also I doubt that your friend will probably want to keep his mules, if you change the roles sometimes, or you do the same for him let`s see.. doubled the time ^^

@ toefl.. first asking for it and then not checking the source.. are you afraid... ^^

@ boss strategy
leap attack on de seis--> stuns all around him
-->howl if you need
zerk boss
rinse and repeat

ranged attackers may not be in range of howl also there ay be other things around.. you willnot spend your time howling all the time ^^

25%
versus 40
means.. I will roughly trigger every 4th attack
while will trigger every second attack
(note however, I had forgotten the fact that firestorm of torch is diablo and not druidskill, shame on me, and therefor has no cast delay)
which means you have a cd, I don`t have one

now let`s see
you do 12k average damage as calculated
monsterstats taken from monstats.txt, from the d2 date and from d2wissen.d2chars.de and arreat summit
all data is for players=1

I seriously doubt your 1 hit 1 kill theory because I know the resistances and life.....

warped one-->75% magic resistance 1545-3400 -->9890 effective hp versus berzerk at average
probably one hit kill if you trigger deadly strike(54% only), of not you need 2 strikes

colenzo: 6800 bis 11126 hp 50% magical resistance--> average effective life:13444--> 2 strikes

council members 0 magical resistance 13600 bis 16691 your average damage:12121--> 2 strikes per member
bartuc: 27200 bis 33382 hp, 0 magical resistances 3 strikes

venom lord 18546 bis 21637 life, 0 magicalresistances--> 2 strikes each
ventar: 37092 bis 43274 life 0 magical resistances--> 4 strikes

minion of destruction 26582 bis 29673 hp 0 magic resistances 3 strikes each
lister: 53164 bis 59346 0 magical resistances 5 strikes

teleporting to baal and getting decrepefy on your head does not really sound like a strategy to me, especially if one uses a slow attack like berserk

5 chaos.. I know how to use my barbskills... ^^

if i use a teleport amu, It takes me 1-2 seconds to switch to highlords ^^

let´s see 69 charges for getting though walls and for sake of safety and damage
I do my runs to kill em all ^^ If I want speedruns, I ask for somebody else to port and follow them through the portal.. ever done a cs run witht hose tactics, easy job ^^

Battle Orders also increase the MAXIMUM life,mana of characters.......
enigma only adds +5% to the bonus of BO
It does not multiply it.....


pretty funny, should we look back at the fact that we are using Berserk, in case you have forgotten:
For the stated duration afterwards your defense is zero. You also do not receive the Iron Skin or Dexterity bonus. You can still block as if you are using a shield, however. A defense of 0 will let you block all the time, thus quite often hinder you from doing anything else. Consider not wearing a shield.

@ warcry
1, 8 seconds means for me enough time to deal 4 attacks
i can do this during the time you are still caught in your cast delay of fire storm.....

This post was edited by Ancalagon on Aug 15 2008 10:26am

rq nm= sol- um
rq hell= hel-gul
we found out that you need
Lem, Mal,2 Vex. 3 LO, 1 Ber and 3 Jah runes

with a good rusher, you need about 35-40 minutes per rush until hell a3, let`s say another 3-4 minutes for muling,meppel,travi and 3 minutesw for 2 rqs per mule

44 minutes for all+ 3 minutes per mule

for all your runes as mentioned only in this build, you would need 201 rushes (dak`s d2 calc as source)
-->147,4 hours rushtime
-->70,35 hours for the mules and harvesting
-->217 hours and 45 minutes playtime
which equals ~ 9 days of non stop playing.. and you want to tell me that you have done that... ^^


I know how rq rushes work and I also know how long it takes to get something with a good amount of chars

also I doubt that your friend will probably want to keep his mules, if you change the roles sometimes, or you do the same for him let`s see.. doubled the time ^^
^^ do not assume that my friends (plural) don't do this on a regular basis, and as for your calculations, that is only based on 2 people

@ toefl.. first asking for it and then not checking the source.. are you afraid... ^^
?, childish comment don't you think?

@ boss strategy
leap attack on de seis--> stuns all around him
-->howl if you need
zerk boss
rinse and repeat
ROFLMAO another Fail
Again you use a different skill to prove a point, only thing is, it doesn't. You would have to waste points into this skill, damn, and how much points to make it useful.

ranged attackers may not be in range of howl also there ay be other things around.. you willnot spend your time howling all the time ^^


25%
versus 40
means.. I will roughly trigger every 4th attack
while will trigger every second attack
(note however, I had forgotten the fact that firestorm of torch is diablo and not druidskill, shame on me, and therefor has no cast delay)
which means you have a cd, I don`t have one

now let`s see
you do 12k average damage as calculated
monsterstats taken from monstats.txt, from the d2 date and from d2wissen.d2chars.de and arreat summit
all data is for players=1

I seriously doubt your 1 hit 1 kill theory because I know the resistances and life.....
I have actually killed Lord De Sies on a number of occassions with 1 hit, but then, that is my word

warped one-->75% magic resistance 1545-3400 -->9890 effective hp versus berzerk at average
probably one hit kill if you trigger deadly strike(54% only), of not you need 2 strikes

colenzo: 6800 bis 11126 hp 50% magical resistance--> average effective life:13444--> 2 strikes

council members 0 magical resistance 13600 bis 16691 your average damage:12121--> 2 strikes per member
bartuc: 27200 bis 33382 hp, 0 magical resistances 3 strikes

venom lord 18546 bis 21637 life, 0 magicalresistances--> 2 strikes each
ventar: 37092 bis 43274 life 0 magical resistances--> 4 strikes

minion of destruction 26582 bis 29673 hp 0 magic resistances 3 strikes each
lister: 53164 bis 59346 0 magical resistances 5 strikes

teleporting to baal and getting decrepefy on your head does not really sound like a strategy to me, especially if one uses a slow attack like berserk
Howl is a cast speed, not effected with Decrepify. Tele again is Cast speed.

5 chaos.. I know how to use my barbskills... ^^
Do you, really, before in your first lot of items, you did not have teleport items on?

if i use a teleport amu, It takes me 1-2 seconds to switch to highlords ^^
And are you going to switch the ammies each time when trying to kill something?

let´s see 69 charges for getting though walls and for sake of safety and damage
I do my runs to kill em all ^^ If I want speedruns, I ask for somebody else to port and follow them through the portal.. ever done a cs run witht hose tactics, easy job ^^

Battle Orders also increase the MAXIMUM life,mana of characters.......
enigma only adds +5% to the bonus of BO
It does not multiply it.....
Just check Enigma properties, or are you saying that Enigma Does not have the mod "Increase Maximum life by 5%"?
http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/runewords-110.shtml

pretty funny, should we look back at the fact that we are using Berserk, in case you have forgotten:
For the stated duration afterwards your defense is zero. You also do not receive the Iron Skin or Dexterity bonus. You can still block as if you are using a shield, however. A defense of 0 will let you block all the time, thus quite often hinder you from doing anything else. Consider not wearing a shield.
^^ Think about Wave 2 when doing Baal, shit dude are your eyes closed shut, because if you were using Berserk on Wave 2 in Throne, I would clear out 10 runs before you clear out 1.

@ warcry
1, 8 seconds means for me enough time to deal 4 attacks
i can do this during the time you are still caught in your cast delay of fire storm.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You keep using different variables, and by doing so, kill your own setup. I have stuck to my 1 setup in all your arguements.
I know you have not even tried your own setup, that is because you keep changing it.
You only live on your calculations, but, your calculations are only on paper, and they do not
beat my experience with my build.

The next time you point out changes, think about what else you are altering.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Aug 17 2008 06:55pm

~@~ izParagonzi ~@~

Actually, I do not rely on others to get me there for speed runs, as stated in my other posts, I can do Chaos by myself in a Baal run with everyone going to Baal (no help), now we can take it the other way, while they are in Chaos, I can do Baals Minions (or baal if they are slow).