Quote (Dumpling @ Sat, May 24 2008, 09:50pm)

i'd just try and use that to push them out of their traps, and then try and get the fb jump when they are clear of their traps, and slowly wear them down that way.  tvt is really gay any way you look at it though.

Quote (Flatulence @ Sat, May 24 2008, 09:52pm)

You could try inventory/character screen trapping hehehehahheahaea

Quote (Ziecheik @ Sat, May 24 2008, 04:02pm)

trap vs trap is one of the few matchups I use that technique in, its kinda useful for pushing traps when you dont want to get in range but you want to force your opponent to move. Although I gotta admit I am a bit spoiled by the d2pk use of maphack, would probably put myself in much greater danger trying to longcast (as I like to call it) without trap display on minimap, restricting my field of vision and all. On the flip side of things trap display on minimap does make longcasting a lot easier for my opponents to avoid because they see it coming.

Quote (alia @ Sat, May 24 2008, 11:30pm)

Me and Dave don't use it. Join us!

Quote (Dumpling @ Sun, May 25 2008, 03:00am)

yea, i like to run in tvt, but when the opportunity presents itself, i have no objection to jumping right in and throwing out a few fb's

Quote (Holocauster_Tycoon @ Sat, 24 May 2008, 12:30)

@ disussion in v1.0:

Valk is better than griffons hands down. frw as well as fhr is very good to have.

as for IAS, you are right when you are saying that you can just as well WSM bug to reach your BPs, however you have to take into account that WSGing with wsm bugged claws is immensely annoying since you have to re-bug and it takes the flow out of your dueling style.
this is mainly against traplocks of course, but since many team pk teams include trappers and since its especially important in tvts to get away fast when u get trapped since otherwise oyu will have a driud and/or barb sitting on top of you this can be important. further, this is also where additional FRW turns out to be handy.
as for whirling ... i personally think on a pure trapper, chaos is a waste. the only reason why i take my chaos is because you can predict-whirl so nicely to counter telestomps from hdins and im very used to it from hybrid. run/walk just cannot compete to wihrl in those duels imho. but i also got BoS there so FRW from gear isnt that significant. it wont add too much because of frw diminishing returns.



NEW DISCUSSION:

1on1 build. max MB vs rest FBlast. what do you prefer and why?

- I prefer max mindblast since i find it's overall usefulness is > FBlast also in 1v1s. FBlast adds good damage in stomp+tank situations. this is already restricted since you can only do this against some casters, which i usually do not find to be the worst problems of a sin (apart from maybe very good necros and there are maybe 1-2 on each realm 8D ).
- lvl1 base FBlast can still be used for tactical/stunning purposes just as well.
- max MB increases your SM mbing frequency veeery much as we all know, for me this turned out to be very effective even though i still do of course use mindblast a lot as well myself. when you chase and teleport much your SM spams it literally and your opponent is being disturbed massively at defing and spamming backwards, and it also supports my Tele/FBlast-as-soon-as-you-see-your-opponent-on-screen-tactic since swirls will almost always be there.
- of course the swirl duration increase from 6.x secs (or so) to 10secs is very helpful. basically the time where your opponent got swirlies above his head generally inrease and when you get into a tanking situation you almost dont have to re-MB at all and cann keep pushing FBlasts instead which lowers the chances to get away. plus it means that your opponent might teleport more often into overlooked WoFs or anything with swirls up ... maybe.
- DMG source. just like on ghosts, MB becomes a real damage source. my sin got lvl41 mb right now, which means i think 270 avrg screen dmg. this can add up to a lot over time. especially against hammerdins, barbs and other chars that can escape your traps fairly easily, this turns out to be very nice to have i find.


opinions?

Quote (Holocauster_Tycoon @ Mon, May 26 2008, 02:10pm)

Quote (Holocauster_Tycoon @ Mon, May 26 2008, 09:40am)

Valk is better than griffons hands down. frw as well as fhr is very good to have.

as for IAS, you are right when you are saying that you can just as well WSM bug to reach your BPs, however you have to take into account that WSGing with wsm bugged claws is immensely annoying since you have to re-bug and it takes the flow out of your dueling style.
this is mainly against traplocks of course, but since many team pk teams include trappers and since its especially important in tvts to get away fast when u get trapped since otherwise oyu will have a driud and/or barb sitting on top of you this can be important. further, this is also where additional FRW turns out to be handy.
as for whirling ... i personally think on a pure trapper, chaos is a waste. the only reason why i take my chaos is because you can predict-whirl so nicely to counter telestomps from hdins and im very used to it from hybrid. run/walk just cannot compete to wihrl in those duels imho. but i also got BoS there so FRW from gear isnt that significant. it wont add too much because of frw diminishing returns.


NEW DISCUSSION:

1on1 build. max MB vs rest FBlast. what do you prefer and why?

- I prefer max mindblast since i find it's overall usefulness is > FBlast also in 1v1s. FBlast adds good damage in stomp+tank situations. this is already restricted since you can only do this against some casters, which i usually do not find to be the worst problems of a sin (apart from maybe very good necros and there are maybe 1-2 on each realm 8D ).
- lvl1 base FBlast can still be used for tactical/stunning purposes just as well.
- max MB increases your SM mbing frequency veeery much as we all know, for me this turned out to be very effective even though i still do of course use mindblast a lot as well myself. when you chase and teleport much your SM spams it literally and your opponent is being disturbed massively at defing and spamming backwards, and it also supports my Tele/FBlast-as-soon-as-you-see-your-opponent-on-screen-tactic since swirls will almost always be there.
- of course the swirl duration increase from 6.x secs (or so) to 10secs is very helpful. basically the time where your opponent got swirlies above his head generally inrease and when you get into a tanking situation you almost dont have to re-MB at all and cann keep pushing FBlasts instead which lowers the chances to get away. plus it means that your opponent might teleport more often into overlooked WoFs or anything with swirls up ... maybe.
- DMG source. just like on ghosts, MB becomes a real damage source. my sin got lvl41 mb right now, which means i think 270 avrg screen dmg. this can add up to a lot over time. especially against hammerdins, barbs and other chars that can escape your traps fairly easily, this turns out to be very nice to have i find.